My regular commenter Jeff wrote in a post on his own blog Scripture Zealot
We all know the English Standard Version is a solid translation. There is plenty to be found on the Web about that.
To that I responded, in a comment awaiting moderation as I write:
Very funny! But some of your readers might not understand your irony here. Just read what Iyov, Mike and most of their commenters have to say about its lack of solidity.
I will wait and see if Jeff recognised his own irony, whether intentional or not, and allows this comment on a post and comment thread which is otherwise hagiography of ESV. Meanwhile I recommend Iyov’s and Mike’s posts and their comments for a more accurate assessment of ESV.
I also had to correct Jeff for wrongly stating in another post that
the Greek word most often translated as hallowed only occurs in the New Testament twice.
He quoted Matthew 6:9 and Luke 11:2, but in fact the verb (if not the precise form) occurs 28 times in the NT.
Scripture Zealot, I think Romans 10:2 could have been written about you.
You might check out Ancient Hebrew Poetry. He’s doing some serious deconstruction of ESV claims to fidelity.
P.S. Nice redesign.
Wow! Looks like I’m not the only one freshening things up around blogdom. That’s a beautiful combination of image and background color, Peter – looks great!
Hi Peter
You know me from Simon Jones’ blog and from viewing the Reachout Trust discussion forum. Like you, I am a graduate of London Bible College. I continued my theological studies at Regent’s Park College, Oxford, and gained a Master of Theology degree.
I have written about the decline and fall of Michael Reid Ministries on my blog http://johlibaptist.blogspot.com/
Have you any idea why my post, about Michael Reid, on the blog does not show up on the Google search engine like yours?
Perhaps I will see you one day at your church, as my sister lives off Tabors Avenue in Great Baddow.
Thanks, David and ElShaddai, for the nice comments about my new theme. Actually it is just one I downloaded some time ago and am trying out, unmodified so far. I was getting tired of the old one.
Those big ugly numbers have got to go (3156..). Can you make our names really big instead so we can be famous?!?
Hi,
I replied to you on both of those threads so you guys and gals can take a look if you want.
I feel a little bit like I’m being picked on but the important thing is I would like to learn from these things and I’m glad that you’re replying to posts there.
I didn’t mean for “We all know the English Standard Version is a solid translation” to be ironic. However I could have worded it differently by not saying “we all know”. Many do believe it’s a solid translation and the translation itself isn’t was the post was about.
Jeff
Scripture Zealot, I think Romans 10:2 could have been written about you.
Romans 10:2
For I can testify about them that they are zealous for God, but their zeal is not based on knowledge.
Ouch.
Jeff, perhaps the verse is a bit too pointed to be appropriate. You are lacking not so much in knowledge as in careful reading of your sources – and in judgment about what is written about ESV.
You are not the first person I have picked on for their support of ESV. Adrian Warnock is another. But actually I have learned to ignore most ESV supporters because they seem to share an unteachable attitude, at least if the teacher is anyone outside their small circle of heroes. I hope for better things from you.
David, you’re right about the numbers. I will try to make them smaller, and commenters’ names a little larger but not all caps, when I have time.
Peter, for a while ESV was my second favorite. But as I posted on Mike’s blog, I’ve felt less favorable to the ESV as time has gone on. I’m not loyal to any one translation and certainly would hope I’m not judged as possibly unteachable just because I may or may not like a translation.
And I hope you and others don’t feel the same way about the majority of the posts on my blog.
Jeff
A new-blog-look fever is going around. I gotta get going. Congrats Peter on the new look!
Fair enough, Jeff. That one post made you look rather like an ESV worshipper, or at least an ESV zealot. I was surprised. I need to look at more posts on your blog.
That one post made you look rather like an ESV worshipper, or at least an ESV zealot. I was surprised. I need to look at more posts on your blog.
I’m not sure where you got worshipper. Again, the main thrust of that ESV post was to point out all the things Crossway does OTHER than the ESV translation itself and that I wish other publishers would follow suit.
Sometimes my subject lines (“What’s so great about the ESV”, “Making the Gospel Seeker Sensitive”) are a little attention getting. Maybe I need to a little more plain for some.
I find it strange that a Bible translation would bring someone’s judgment into question to this degree.
See R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Jeff
Well, Jeff, my main point in this post was “pointing out teachings that are unscriptural”, in the whole ESV project and in your other post, which you imply in your R-E-S-P-E-C-T post is OK. But I accept that I may not have given you full respect, and if so I am sorry. I will now let this go.
I know you’d like to let it go but I’d like to know what I was posting that was unscriptural.
If it’s that two forms of the underlying word for hallow(ed) are used in fact more than twice, I wouldn’t classify that as unscriptural or false teaching. And for goodness sake commenting on a publisher of a translation isn’t unscriptural.
I’d be happy to let you have the last word here since it’s your blog or if you’d like to leave it that’s OK.
Jeff
Fellows, hagiazo is also used in 1 Pet 3:15.
Scripture Zealot, just take it in stride. Peter growls once in a while but he’s kinda cuddly once you get to know him.
TC, interestingly, last night I was reading from one of Peter’s favorite authors, John Piper, and he did an “Author’s Translation” of 1 Pet 3:15 and used hallowed.
David thanks for the encouragement. Sometimes it takes me a while to see the soft side (or the gentle wisdom) of an apparently hard edged person. I’m very irenic on my blog but I have dished it out a little bit here and I think I’m getting a little back which I should be able to take.
Jeff
Jeff, I know I was not being as gentle as I intend to be on this blog, and I apologise for this.
Your point about “hallowed” was an honest mistake which needed to be corrected. But I do consider it unscriptural to praise ESV in the way that you did, with no hint of reservations, because (quite apart from its awful language style) it is a deliberate distortion of Scripture, especially in 2 Timothy 2:2. Your problem is perhaps that you read too much John Piper.
TC, there are plenty of places where hagiazo is used, 28 in the NT. Two of them, only in the Lord’s Prayer, are of God the Father. Three, John 10:36, 17:19 and 1 Peter 3:15, are of Jesus. Three or four, Matthew 23:17,19, 1 Timothy 4:5 and perhaps Romans 15:16, are of things. The others are of ordinary Christian people being “sanctified”.
Peter, I missed the context of your exchange, then. Sorry about that.
Peter, I like this new look because the font is larger and the new colours have stronger impact on the visual.
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Blood on the discussion floor always shows signs of a good theological discussion -especially if the blood belongs to the graceful lamb of God. Be tender and loving to each other in your admonitions. Even if we exegete perfectly but without love we are still clangging cymbols.Nice blog!
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