I have just been asked privately if any Anglicans, apart from myself, have been involved in this Todd Bentley and Lakeland outpouring thing. After all, in some ways it looks a very un-Anglican thing. But then there has been a long tradition of Anglican involvement in healing ministry, in ways which often differ more in style than in substance from what Todd is doing.
I did mention in a previous post that my Church of England vicar, his wife and two youth ministers from my church went to Lakeland. They returned last Friday fired up with the Holy Spirit and held “impartation” meetings on Friday and Sunday evenings. I missed the Friday meeting, but on Sunday night the Holy Spirit was moving powerfully. In these few days we have seen at least two clear healings and probably others that I haven’t heard about. I may write more about this later.
I have heard that there are a number of other Anglicans involved in this movement. But the only one I can name is Rev Mark Stibbe of St Andrew’s Chorleywood. Mark has written a short article on his church’s website about how since he returned from Lakeland in May his church has been holding weekly “impartation” meetings, with the inspired acronym FIRE: “the Father’s Impartation for Revival through Evangelism”. For indeed this outpouring should be motivating and empowering the church for evangelism, not just for sitting around waiting for crowds to flock in.
If you know of any other Anglicans involved in this, please mention it in a comment.
John & Anne Coles of New Wine Ministries visited and came back with lots of positives of God moving in power as well as the usual questions about the culture and the hype.
Jon, thanks for the tip. Have you seen any more details of this? I can’t find any report from Google or on the New Wine website.
John Coles sent this email out to all Network Members on 2 June 2008
Dear Friends
I expect that many of you will either have watched it yourself or had members of your church talking to you about it. I am not referring to the strangely addictive programme ‘The Apprentice’, dubbed as ‘the job interview from hell’. I am talking about the equally addictive nightly available coverage of the ‘Florida outpouring’. Of course this is not yet covered by terrestrial TV but is only viewable by those who subscribe to God TV or on the internet. Both Bill Johnson and I referred to it during the leadership conference in Harrogate. I wonder what you have made of it, or of the comments made by members of your church about it? If you haven’t yet seen it I suggest you give it a try, because it won’t be long before your opinion will be sought if it hasn’t been already. Even the Church of England newspaper has had an article about it!
I am writing this immediately on my return from Florida, where I have been visiting the outpouring for the last 5 days with Anne. The clear span tent they are now using is almost exactly the same as the Venue One tent at Shepton Mallet – but they have put two alongside each other to seat 8-10k people! I am still trying to sort out my response to what we have seen and experienced. No doubt over the next few weeks it will become more clear to us what is the lasting legacy of this visit, but I thought I would share a few thoughts immediately.
Keeping in step with the Spirit
Firstly it’s an amazing experience to be in a place where so many healings and miracles are happening night after night. The opening of deaf ears, the restoration of sight to blind eyes, and the healing of the crippled are all things that I have seen over the years; but they have been occasional things rather than weekly occurrences, In Lakeland they were not only nightly, but in large numbers every night. If ‘seeing is believing’ then it’s difficult not to find faith rising is such circumstances! They are now reporting that 17 resurrections of the dead have happened through the ministry of people who have been at the meetings. Since all this is in the western developed world rather than in the developing world the impact is even greater; God can do it here in the UK in a similar way.
Secondly, as someone trying to learn to use the gifts of the spirit, it was inspiring to see someone moving in the gifts as freely and powerfully as Todd Bentley was doing. Every evening was different, and yet every evening he seemed to be trying to follow the prompting of the Spirit, as Jesus did ‘only doing what he saw the Father doing’. Consequently he would often apparently interrupt what he was doing, even interviewing someone, as he sensed that the Holy Spirit was healing someone else, or ministering in another wave. Many of us do not get many opportunities to lead Holy Spirit ministry for more than a few minutes at the end of services. I wonder whether we should be building into our pattern of church life more opportunities for people to respond over a prolonged time to the direct work of the Spirit; learning to lead such times would be quite a challenge. But I also thought as I watched Todd that I would love that sensitivity to the Spirit not just in church meetings but all day long wherever I was. To be in the midst of a conversation with someone and then to have a word of knowledge or prophecy for them has long been a vague desire; I have come home with a greater hunger to ‘keep in step with the Spirit’ in that way.
The power of praise
Thirdly we have asked ourselves repeatedly ‘what is the key to all this happening here?’ Perhaps there is more than one key, but there was a wonderful emphasis on seeking the presence of Jesus above everything else. The meetings began with powerful worship for 75 minutes or more, often finishing with an overwhelming sense of the Lord enthroned on the praises of his people. People were arriving for the meetings an hour or more before they started, and spent much of that time in prayer and preparatory worship. It’s hardly surprising that Jesus comes with power to heal when thousands have spent that amount of time invoking him to come and bring his kingdom! That sort of worship is not exactly replicable in our normal Sunday morning services, but it makes me think about encouraging and equipping our people to come prepared for worship and real encounter with God, rather than rushing in to the service hassled, unprepared and expecting it all to be handed to them on a plate. The hunger of the people for Jesus and his kingdom was tangible, and I am sure that their holy desperation for him was what he was graciously and generously responding to. It was interesting that quite a number of those being healed were those who had sacrificed time and money to make the journey to Lakeland; there was a delightful elderly couple from England who were rejoicing because he was healed having had no feeling or movement in his right foot since surgery went wrong 34 years earlier!
The Gamaliel Principle
So we have so much to thank God for from our visit and so much to learn from them. But if you watch it on God TV and read many of the reports and responses on the internet you may find another story altogether. Todd’s style is not exactly gentle – he shouts almost incessantly. The possibility of manipulation through music is never far from the surface – some would say they are so hyped up that it verges on mass hysteria. The healings are not all medically verified and so there is no objective measure of change of symptoms or condition before a testimony is given and celebrated – are they all real and sustained? There is a sense of this being a great ‘show’ – the Americans of course love shows and these Revival meetings gave people a great night out. And what better a night out could there be then seeing and then celebrating God at work!
Of course all these type of comments have been made in the past about ‘Revival meetings’ in the Pentecostal tradition in America. We don’t have quite the same tradition in this country, so it’s more difficult for us to either understand this phenomenon or respond rightly to it. What is clear is that Todd Bentley is a modern day successor to the likes of Kathryn Kuhlmann; his passion for God, his compassion for the sick, his longing for the lost to come to know the Saviour, and his willingness to risk his name and reputation and boldly commit his all to the cause of the Kingdom are both admirable and infectious. Because God TV has given him a greater international visibility and influence than Kathryn Kuhlmann ever had, we can be sure that he will be both inspirational and divisive without either going to Lakeland or weighing carefully what is happening. I personally think we always need to be cautious about speaking against something that could be God – it’s the Gamaliel principle; For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God. (Acts 5.38-39.)
Todd has initiated under the grace of God something which is attracting the world’s attention. Instead of the mocking question ‘Where is your God?’ people are beginning to ask such questions as ‘Can this God heal me too?’ and ‘how can I get to know your God?’ The challenge is for church leaders from around the world to continue this in a sustainable and culturally adaptable manner, without losing the fire of God. If we succeed then perhaps at last the world will no longer be bored by a church that has lost its way, but be fascinated again by a Jesus who is powerfully at work supernaturally transforming the hearts, minds, bodies and lives of millions of people worldwide.
Daron, thanks for posting this. There are two important points here:
I’m about to have a look at what you have written on this subject on your own blog.
John Coles sent a follow up mail on June 20. Here it is. I will be commenting on my blog shortly.
Dear Friends
I’ve learnt something this week – if you want to get a lot of correspondence write about something controversial! Thanks to all who wrote following my last letter. I know that since then a number more people have visited Florida, and have been watching God TV’s coverage of the ‘Outpouring’. I have talked with some of you as well as written to some of you; I hope that over the next weeks and months the fruit of what is happening will become more and more apparent, and others will come to the conclusion, as I have, that this really is ‘a work of God’.
More on the Florida Outpouring
I was surprised to see that my last letter to you was quoted at length in the Church of England newspaper with an introduction ‘John Coles welcomes what is happening, although with not quite the same enthusiasm as Mark Stibbe.’ Sadly I haven’t had the time to talk to Mark to compare our degrees of enthusiasm (!) nor have I spoken to the reporter. When I referred in my letter to the Gamaliel principle it was not to say I was using that principle; from the start I have been talking about this as a work of God, and the concluding part of the quote indicates that I want to see this work propagated her in the UK in a sustainable and culturally relevant way. I was trying to warn others not to prematurely criticise this work, without either going to Florida, or going to meetings in this country led by people who have been there.
Over the last couple of weeks Anne and I have spoken in a number of different places about the impact on us of going to Florida and having the privilege of seeing God at work in such a powerful way for 5 days. Each time we have talked and worshipped we have been somewhat astonished at the response; people have started weeping, crying out to God, and manifesting physically a response to the coming of the Spirit of God. Each time we have ministered we have seen God bring some immediate and measurable healing to some of the people present; conditions of hearing loss, tinnitus, tennis elbow, knee problems, neck pains, frozen shoulder, back problems and the like have been healed. Some of this has been with intentional and persistent prayer, some of this has been as people have gone through a ‘fire tunnel’, as we experienced in Harrogate. Some of the healings have been for people who have been asking God for years for their healing; in other cases it was the first time of asking; in one case it was an unbeliever going through the fire tunnel – she is now a believer!
All this has left me with a greater clarity of what has happened and is continuing to happen. First, I am left with a desire for an insatiable hunger for the presence and power of the Lord. I know that at times I have been, and am hungry for ‘more’. But much of the time I am relatively content with what I have already experienced and know about God. I now want more! And I think God is igniting that hunger in thousands of others and then satisfying it by welcoming them into his presence and letting them taste and see his power in new ways. Second, I am aware that I am now much more expectant (full of faith) that God will do more. Healing is something that not only might happen, but will happen, as we make the declaration that Jesus is King, and then use the authority he has given to us as children of the King. So I am personally refreshed, challenged, expectant, enjoying ministering in the power of the Spirit … and looking forward to a great time at this year’s New Wine summer conferences! (If you want to visit somewhere that is trying to learn and apply the lessons of Florida then you there are a number of places around the UK where you could go.
Daron, thanks for the follow-up.
Dear Peter,
Have you noticed that John Coles has retracted his endorsement of ‘the Gamaliel Principle’; he says in his follow up email that he never endorsed such an approach and that he has always been 100% behind Lakeland. I think that’s a bit of a u-turn. How do you read it?
Secondly, since when has the proclamation of the gospel required the prior absence of boredom and the presence of fascination? Yes, the proclamation of the gospel is to take place ‘In season and out’, but the pragmatic observation that unbelievers will be attracted to the church because they can get something isn’t significant in an of itself. Jesus himself seems to have been somewhat perturbed by such temporal acquisitiveness, particularly when it arose in response to his miracles rather than his teaching (Mark 1).
I read it that John Coles is consistently saying exactly what I said when I, before him and in fact in my very first post mentioning Todd Bentley, applied the Gamaliel principle to him. That is, John and I both generally endorse Todd, with some reservations; and, while we recognise that not everyone else can join in our endorsement, we urge those doubters to quit public criticism and instead follow the Gamaliel principle themselves.
Incidentally, we don’t know what Gamaliel’s personal attitude to the disciples was. It is quite possible that he was a secret believer or at least admirer of them. What we know is what he urged those who were violently opposed to do. John Coles and I urge a similar attitude on those who are voicing strong and often immoderate opposition to Todd.
Jesus may have been disturbed that people were following him for the miracles and not because they wanted to be his true disciples. But that didn’t make him stop doing the miracles, at least until towards the end of his ministry when he set his face to go to Jerusalem. He recognised (as in the parable of the sower) that not all the seed he sowed would produce fruit, that some would spring up quickly in enthusiasm but soon dry up or be choked by other cares. But that did not stop him sowing the seed.
Thanks Daron for your posts.
This ‘fighting against God’ leaves me deeply concerned, especially since blasphemy against the Spirit is the one truly unforgivable sin according to Jesus Himself.
People can feel uncomfortable with Todd and his methods all they want – I think it’s only human (possible double meaning there) to be so. But when we move beyond true discernment and testing to labelling someone ‘of the devil’ or such we place ourselves in the position of judge and risk falling ourselves. May God preserve us.
Daron, I too long for the outbreaking of the Spirit as we are seeing. I’ve always railed against the idea that our services/meetings should be a certain way with so many songs and the sermon of no more than 10 minutes (or longer depending on the denomination). Where the Spirit is there is true liberty. What would our towns and cities look like where ‘ordinary’ Christians were so in tune with the continual work and guidance of the Holy Spirit that our lives were truly surrendered?
IMAGINE!!
And yes, I am fed up of moaning Christians spending more time criticising and arguing over things rather than getting before God themselves. Crikey!! Just who do we think we are?!?!
If we can’t even do what Jesus commanded us (such as loving each other and telling others) then what can we expect? I know I fall short of what God wants and am desiring more and more to be more dead to myself and alive in Christ. I also have my own opinions and know that I can’t rely on them, only on God (not sure how well I’m doing on that count, especially since commenting on blogs!!).
Where God is truly at work people are affected. Something I do know for sure is that the ‘Lakeland Phenomenon’ is making a lot of Christians desire God more fervently and not just for healing. For that in itself, Amen!
Jamie, I like you! Perhaps you should blog yourself, as well as commenting on others’ blogs.
Peter, thanks very much.
Why, might I ask?
Well, Jamie, because you have good things to say. But I don’t want to distract you from relying on God rather than your own opinions.
Apologies for any vanity there. None intended, just curious as to the specifics. I’m still young, but have seen enough for me to realise how easy own opinions can become the driving before behind our walk with God, rather than the desire to be with Him.
Indeed, Jamie. I was young, and now I am not, and I see how young idealists become middle-aged realists – or middle-aged apostates. It is no accident that the New Calvinists are mostly young.
Dear Peter and Jamie,
Thank you for your comments. However, I remain unconvinced by your arguments in favour of the Lakeland Phenomenon.
Also, contrary to what your suggest Jamie, I haven’t directly asserted that Todd Bentley is ‘of the devil’; but I have quoted scriptures where (1) Jesus tells his disciples that ‘signs and wonders’ can be counterfeited by the devil and (2) that it is possible to do miraculous things and yet still be dismissed by Christ as having not been known by him.
I have taken two main points from these particular scriptures and applied them to the process of discernment concerning Lakeland and Todd Bentley. These two points are (1) that the presence of signs and wonders should not be taken a priori as evidence of God’s presence or particular blessing, and (2) that a person’s ability to perform miracles should not be taken as confirming evidence of God’s presence or activity.
That is a far cry from using *scare texts* to lambast something that I just don’t happen to like! I am merely suggesting that the things that many people are holding up as sure evidences of a work of God are – according to Jesus – actually unreliable ways of discerning God’s work and blessing.
I am asking that these clear statements of Christ be given serious consideration from the outset of the discernment process because it seems to me that people are allowing their sincere desire for revival to prejudice their discernment to the extent that Christ’s teaching on the subject in being overlooked.
I believe that signs and wonders are very closely linked to teaching (Mark 16.20). So, I have reaching my current position concerning Todd Bentley by means of indirection – I cannot accept his teaching as faithful to scripture and I am therefore, on that basis alone, deeply suspicious of the signs and wonders that are publicly lending weight to that teaching.
My basic approach is this – test the sign by the teaching; not the teaching by the sign. We have in scripture a objective and corporate means of testing the veracity of a person’s teaching. On the other hand we do not have in miracles an objective means of testing a person’s teaching. The miracle may be real and spectacular, but that doesn’t mean that it’s a work of God. We don’t test the wonderfulness of a wonder by the awe that it produces; we test the wonderfulness of a wonder by the truth about God that it has confirmed.
Sadly, in the case of Lakeland, it seems to me that we’re witnessing spectacular and superficially wonderful things that are being used to substantiate errant teaching and delinquent behaviour.
Thank you, Daron. I don’t dispute the need to test the teaching as well as the sign. But I don’t see anything fundamentally false in the teaching. Maybe a bit weak at times, and maybe a few peripheral teachings which are not quite right.
Also we need to test teachings and signs by their fruit. If their fruit is that of the Spirit, then surely they are produced by the Spirit. And in this case I see the fruit of the Spirit in those who have been to or endorsed Lakeland, and bad, sour and bitter fruit only in those who have rejected it and, in very many cases not including you, proceeded to throw bitter accusations at faithful ministers of the gospel.
Just thought I’d let you know that our vicar, wardens and eldership are all going to Lakeland over next month or so. As a church we have been very expectant ove rteh last few years for more of what happenned in tehe arly 90’s, so we’re very expectant. We have a strong desire to see God move in power in our parish. St Peter’s, Loudwater, High Wycombe.
Gozzy, thanks for letting me know. I used to live in High Wycombe and knew people who attended St Peter’s. I am a little surprised, but pleased, that your church is making such a commitment to seeking this kind of outpouring.
Peter,
I disagree with you concerning the degree and the frequency of error in Bentley’s teaching. His teaching is in many places fundamentally errant. I also disagree regarding your proposed method of discernment concerning Bentley’s teaching. I don’t think we are to test teaching by its fruit. This is because we are told to preach the word in season and out. In other words we are to teach when there is fruit and when there isn’t. If the season is right then biblical teaching will yield fruit; if the season is wrong then no fruit will be found. Fruit, therefore, is no sure evidence in and of itself that a person’s teaching either is or isn’t sound. When it comes to teaching we are called to test it against scripture.
Daron,
As regards the ‘of the devil’ bit, it wasn’t aimed at you (or anyone) in particular – it’s simply because I’ve heard some vehement rhetoric from ‘respectable’ sources suggesting the true origin of Lakeland-ia.
I agree with your points regarding testing. Fruit is one thing but faithful preaching of the word the basis of it. It is a great and humbling thing to see God confirming his Word by signs as in Mark 16:20, but people can too often be fickle enough to go for the signs rather than remain faithful to the Word itself.
I mentioned in another post, somewhere, that our vicar recently returned from Lakeland having had no great miracle or sign or whatever (which he wasn’t seeking) but instead said that God had quietly spoken to him one evening saying that his presence was always with him. It’s like the ‘God-on-a-mobile-throne’ image from Ezekiel in that He is graciously with us wherever we are. Some of the best fruit I’ve seen and the greatest wonders have come from the fruit of the Spirit growing within a person, a quiet working of Grace. This cannot be outdone, because it goes on to influence others and is a real and unmistakeable witness.
One thing I am most concerned about is ‘added revelation’, be it through visions and dreams or even suggesting that Scripture should be read according to the tradition of the Church. Introducing human reason to the formation of doctrine is foolish, especially when we can’t agree on the meaning of verses/passages etc. (even denominational-ising because of them). Some things that are blessings for individuals are not meant to be shared openly. We have all we need – the Word and Counselor to help us understand. That is it.
Daron, I agree that sound teaching, the seed, does not always produce fruit. That is the lesson of the parable of the sower. But there cannot be fruit without seed, or good fruit if the tree is bad, Matthew 7:16-20.
Peter, I guess we’ll have to further discuss what constitutes good fruit. As I’ve said before on my blog, I do not think that scripture allows signs and wonders – in and of themselves – to constitute good fruit, no matter how spectacular.
Daron, the good fruit I have in mind is indeed not signs and wonders, but changed lives, the fruit of the Spirit of Galatians 5:22-23. I accept that I don’t have decisive evidence for such fruit from Lakeland, but I have certainly seen some signs of it.
On the other hand I – and others – have seen what we consider to be a significant amount bad fruit. Dr Sam Storms recently posted what I consider to be a well balanced assessment of the bad fruit evident in Bentley’s personal demeanor and public conduct as a minister of the gospel. Sadly I don’t know how to do weblinks in your blog comment area yet but you can read what Storms has to say here —> http://www.enjoyinggodministries.com/enjoying-god/super-spirituality-and-a-call-for-discernment-2-cor-107/
Daron, thanks for the link, which seems to have been generated automatically. But this article is about “either the self-serving, authoritarian practices of some professed Christian leader or the moral scandal that has befallen yet another”, and “the aggressive, self-righteous, supremely self-confident person whose alleged authority borders on legalistic control.” None of these descriptions is relevant to Todd Bentley, who makes absolutely no claim to anything like “legalistic control”. Rather, Todd’s ministry is characterised by
Anyone who denies this is either being deliberately deceptive or has simply failed to familiarise themselves properly with what Todd actually says and does.
Well Peter, your accusation of deception must apply to me I’m afraid because I discern many, if not all, of those things in Bentley’s stage persona. He is aggressive – both literally and verbally. He is self-righteous – he boasts and brags incessantly. He is supremely self confident – his spectacular and fantastical spiritual experiences seem to be the bread and butter of his ministry. He is very prone ‘super-spirituality’ and he certainly bills himself as peculiarly, perhaps even uniquely, anointed. To be perfectly honest, I find it rather peculiar that you can’t see what I’m talking about.