Maybe some of you, my readers, have been offended by my recent posts about charismatic phenomena and the Todd Bentley revival in Florida. Or maybe you know others who have.
I was a little surprised to read a post by Jim West which, I hope, puts any doubts about these matters into proper perspective. Jim presents a poem by Charles Wesley based on the rather obscure Bible story of Eldad and Medad, Numbers 11:26-30. Here is one stanza:
Moses, the minister of God,
Rebukes our partial love,
Who envy at the gifts bestow’d
On those we disapprove.
We do not our own spirit know,
Who wish to see suppress’d
The men that Jesu’s spirit show,
The men whom God hath bless’d.
Let us indeed have the attitude that Moses had when he said
I wish that all the LORD’s people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!
Numbers 11:29 (TNIV)
why surprised? i think i explained myself… 🙂
Greetings Peter and all. There is a blog page of a lady who attended a 3-day conference with Todd Bentley back in 2005. As a member of the Vineyard movement at the time, she was undoubtedly predisposed to being favorable towards miracles and emotionalism. Her description of what went on at the conference is quite complete and comes from someone who wanted to believe in what was being done. What Nichole has to say should be read by anyone interested in Mr. Bentley’s ministry:
http://forum.narrowistheway.org/viewtopic.php?
Rf=12&t=952
Rodger Young
St. Louis
1 John 4:1
Sorry for the error in the URL for the Web site of the lady who attended Mr. Bentley’s meeting. The proper URL is
http://forum.narrowistheway.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=952
If this does not come across correctly this second time, the last part should be supplied as
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=952
Rodger C. Young
St. Louis
Peter:
I came across this (http://www.charismamag.com/fireinmybones/) regarding Todd Bentley and the revival going on in Florida…the author seems to take a good balance when looking at the services.
Rhea, thanks for the link. I agree in principle that we should beware of strange fire, bizarre manifestations and hype. From the limited amount I have seen from Lakeland, I have seen no strange fire but a pure desire to glorify Jesus and the Holy Spirit. And I have not seen manifestations beyond falling over actually being encouraged. Yes, there may have been some hype, but born I am sure out of genuine enthusiasm rather than any attempt to deceive. It might be wrong to claim that this is the greatest revival anywhere ever, but it does seem to be the greatest that most of the people there have experienced, so no wonder that they are excited and want others to share it.
Thank you for your reminder about the true meaning of the word “judge” in Scripture.
God’s Word shows us that even Satan knows His Word(s), from the Garden to the high place at which he tempted Jesus…
Unless God Himself is a liar — and He is not — then “judge not lest ye be judged; condemn not lest ye be condemned; for with the judgment with which you judge shall you be judged, and the condemnation with which you condemn you shall be condemn” and “Judge righteously” are entirely consistent.
We are to seek wisdom and discernment and exercise “righteous judgment” through those gifts of God, which He says He gives to those who ask Him for them!
“16 And I charged your judges at that time, ‘Hear the cases between your brethren, and judge righteously between a man and his brother or the alien that is with him.” [Deuteronomy 1]*
18 “You shall appoint judges and officers in all your towns which the Lord your God gives you, according to your tribes; and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment. 19 You shall not pervert justice; you shall not show partiality; and you shall not take a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and subverts the cause of the righteous. 20 Justice, and only justice, you shall follow, that you may live and inherit the land which the Lord your God gives you. [Deuteronomy 16]
“To the choirmaster: according to Muth-labben. A Psalm of David.
1 I will give thanks to the Lord with my whole heart;
I will tell of all thy wonderful deeds. 2 I will be glad and exult in thee,
I will sing praise to thy name, O Most High.
3 When my enemies turned back,
they stumbled and perished before thee.
4 For thou hast maintained my just cause;
thou hast sat on the throne giving righteous judgment.
5 Thou hast rebuked the nations, thou hast destroyed the wicked;
thou hast blotted out their name for ever and ever.”
[Psalm 9]
“8 Open your mouth for the dumb,
for the rights of all who are left desolate. 9 Open your mouth, judge righteously,
maintain the rights of the poor and needy.” [Proverbs 31]
” 57 “And why do you not judge for yourselves what is right? 58 As you go with your accuser before the magistrate, make an effort to settle with him on the way, lest he drag you to the judge, and the judge hand you over to the officer, and the officer put you in prison. 59 I tell you, you will never get out till you have paid the very last copper.”” [Luke 12; Jesus speaking]
“20 The people answered, “You have a demon! Who is seeking to kill you?” 21 Jesus answered them, “I did one deed, and you all marvel at it. 22 Moses gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man upon the sabbath. 23 If on the sabbath a man receives circumcision, so that the law of Moses may not be broken, are you angry with me because on the sabbath I made a man’s whole body well? 24 Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”” [John 7; Jesus speaking]
“18 So they called them and charged them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John answered them, “Whether it is right in the sight of God to listen to you rather than to God, you must judge; 20 for we cannot but speak of what we have seen and heard.” 21 And when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding no way to punish them, because of the people; for all men praised God for what had happened. 22 For the man on whom this sign of healing was performed was more than forty years old.” [Acts 4]
” 1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who do such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.” [Romans 2]
“1 When one of you has a grievance against a brother, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints? 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases? 3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels? How much more, matters pertaining to this life! 4 If then you have such cases, why do you lay them before those who are least esteemed by the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Can it be that there is no man among you wise enough to decide between members of the brotherhood, 6 but brother goes to law against brother, and that before unbelievers?
7 To have lawsuits at all with one another is defeat for you. Why not rather suffer wrong? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 But you yourselves wrong and defraud, and that even your own brethren.” [1 Corinthians 5]
” 14 Therefore, my beloved, shun the worship of idols. 15 I speak as to sensible men; judge for yourselves what I say. 16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a participation in the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not a participation in the body of Christ? 17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread. 18 Consider the people of Israel; are not those who eat the sacrifices partners in the altar? 19 What do I imply then? That food offered to idols is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, I imply that what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God. I do not want you to be partners with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons. You cannot partake of the table of the Lord and the table of demons. 22 Shall we provoke the Lord to jealousy? Are we stronger than he?” [1 Corinthians 10]
“13 Judge for yourselves; is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not nature itself teach you that for a man to wear long hair is degrading to him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her pride? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16 If any one is disposed to be contentious, we recognize no other practice, nor do the churches of God.” [1 Corinthians 11]
” 1 Therefore you have no excuse, O man, whoever you are, when you judge another; for in passing judgment upon him you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, are doing the very same things. 2 We know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who do such things. 3 Do you suppose, O man, that when you judge those who do such things and yet do them yourself, you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you presume upon the riches of his kindness and forbearance and patience? Do you not know that God’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? 5 But by your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 For he will render to every man according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8 but for those who are factious and do not obey the truth, but obey wickedness, there will be wrath and fury. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for every one who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.” [Romans 2]
” 5 This is evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be made worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering— 6 since indeed God deems it just to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to grant rest with us to you who are afflicted, when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with his mighty angels in flaming fire, 8 inflicting vengeance upon those who do not know God and upon those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They shall suffer the punishment of eternal destruction and exclusion from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. 11 To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his call, and may fulfill every good resolve and work of faith by his power, 12 so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.” [2 Thessalonians 1]
* The Revised Standard Version, (New York: Oxford University Press, Inc.) 1973, 1977.