Who are the real Lesbians?

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Paul the apostle must have met some Lesbians when his ship stopped briefly at Mitylene, Acts 20:14. For Mitylene was and still is the main town of the island of Lesbos, whose inhabitants have been known since ancient times as Lesbians (Λέσβιος, Lesbios). And these islanders are not amused that their name has been hijacked by the Homosexual and Lesbian Community of Greece as a description of homosexual women. Indeed they are so incensed that, as the BBC reports, they are taking legal action against that community to stop them using the word “lesbian”. Their spokesman

claims that international dominance of the word in its sexual context violates the human rights of the islanders, and disgraces them around the world.

The problem with their claim is that this same word, at least in its feminine form (λεσβιάς, lesbias), has very probably (I’m sure some of my readers can confirm this) also been used since ancient times in this sexual sense, referring originally to the allegedly lesbian poetess Sappho. So I can’t see the islanders’ lawsuit being successful, at least outside their native Greece.

0 thoughts on “Who are the real Lesbians?”

  1. LOL!

    The title of your post is great! So funny!!

    I had actually read an article on Yahoo about this earlier today…in it (assuming that I’m remembering correctly), they talked about how someone from Greece said, or at least implied, that Sappho wasn’t really a lesbian, and I guess at least partly b/c of that, the term shouldn’t be used as it primarily is worldwide.

    Reply ↓

  2. Lesbian, ambiguous.

    Aristotle lived on Lesbos in Mytilene, and taught there for some time. In the Rhetoric he quotes: “everybody honored the wise… and the Mytilineans honored Sappho although she was a woman.” That statement, with respect to Aristotle, is itself ambiguous. Is Aristotle intending the quote as his own view, or is he ambivalent about it, or is he slamming it? The influence of Sappho can’t be disputed, and Paul must have met her influence too.

    Reply ↓

  11. The ones who should really be up in arms are the men of the nearby island of Crete. The Catholics canonized Paul’s “example of sound speech” and “gentle wisdom” regarding them so that now it is an article of Christian faith that the men of Crete are at all times debauched and dishonest:

    Titus 1:
    12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
    13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

    Note the word in verse 12 translated “alway”:

    ***
    104 aei aei ah-eye’
    from an obsolete primary noun (apparently meaning continued duration); ; adv
    AV-alway 4, always 3, ever 1; 8
    1) perpetually, incessantly
    2) invariably, at any and every time: when according to the circumstances something is or ought to be done again
    ***

    So that means now as then, with no variation.

    But God doesn’t care about oxen, does he? We should see in this a principle, that colloquial stereotypes about people in particular geography can and should be taken very seriously and perhaps elevated into abiding, reliable characterizations.

    Perhaps we can apply this passage by affirming that Jews are always stiffnecked and tight fisted? Or that the people of New Jersey are “alway” rude? The French, arrogant?

    If I have misunderstood the passage and am in fact myself a cretin, please show me how this might properly be preached in an Anglican assembly.

    Thanks,

    Bill Ross
    http://bibleshockers.com

    Reply ↓

  12. The ones who should really be up in arms are the men of the nearby island of Crete. The Catholics canonized Paul’s “example of sound speech” and “gentle wisdom” regarding them so that now it is an article of Christian faith that the men of Crete are at all times debauched and dishonest:

    Titus 1:
    12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
    13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

    Note the word in verse 12 translated “alway”:

    ***
    104 aei aei ah-eye’
    from an obsolete primary noun (apparently meaning continued duration); ; adv
    AV-alway 4, always 3, ever 1; 8
    1) perpetually, incessantly
    2) invariably, at any and every time: when according to the circumstances something is or ought to be done again
    ***

    So that means now as then, with no variation.

    But God doesn’t care about oxen, does he? We should see in this a principle, that colloquial stereotypes about people in particular geography can and should be taken very seriously and perhaps elevated into abiding, reliable characterizations.

    Perhaps we can apply this passage by affirming that Jews are always stiffnecked and tight fisted? Or that the people of New Jersey are “alway” rude? The French, arrogant?

    If I have misunderstood the passage and am in fact myself a cretin, please show me how this might properly be preached in an Anglican assembly.

    Thanks,

    Bill Ross
    http://bibleshockers.com

    Reply ↓

  13. The ones who should really be up in arms are the men of the nearby island of Crete. The Catholics canonized Paul’s “example of sound speech” and “gentle wisdom” regarding them so that now it is an article of Christian faith that the men of Crete are at all times debauched and dishonest:

    Titus 1:
    12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
    13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

    Note the word in verse 12 translated “alway”:

    ***
    104 aei aei ah-eye’
    from an obsolete primary noun (apparently meaning continued duration); ; adv
    AV-alway 4, always 3, ever 1; 8
    1) perpetually, incessantly
    2) invariably, at any and every time: when according to the circumstances something is or ought to be done again
    ***

    So that means now as then, with no variation.

    But God doesn’t care about oxen, does he? We should see in this a principle, that colloquial stereotypes about people in particular geography can and should be taken very seriously and perhaps elevated into abiding, reliable characterizations.

    Perhaps we can apply this passage by affirming that Jews are always stiffnecked and tight fisted? Or that the people of New Jersey are “alway” rude? The French, arrogant?

    If I have misunderstood the passage and am in fact myself a cretin, please show me how this might properly be preached in an Anglican assembly.

    Thanks,

    Bill Ross
    http://bibleshockers.com

    Reply ↓

  14. The ones who should really be up in arms are the men of the nearby island of Crete. The Catholics canonized Paul’s “example of sound speech” and “gentle wisdom” regarding them so that now it is an article of Christian faith that the men of Crete are at all times debauched and dishonest:

    Titus 1:
    12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
    13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

    Note the word in verse 12 translated “alway”:

    ***
    104 aei aei ah-eye’
    from an obsolete primary noun (apparently meaning continued duration); ; adv
    AV-alway 4, always 3, ever 1; 8
    1) perpetually, incessantly
    2) invariably, at any and every time: when according to the circumstances something is or ought to be done again
    ***

    So that means now as then, with no variation.

    But God doesn’t care about oxen, does he? We should see in this a principle, that colloquial stereotypes about people in particular geography can and should be taken very seriously and perhaps elevated into abiding, reliable characterizations.

    Perhaps we can apply this passage by affirming that Jews are always stiffnecked and tight fisted? Or that the people of New Jersey are “alway” rude? The French, arrogant?

    If I have misunderstood the passage and am in fact myself a cretin, please show me how this might properly be preached in an Anglican assembly.

    Thanks,

    Bill Ross
    http://bibleshockers.com

    Reply ↓

  15. Bill, as Paul clearly states this verse about Cretans being liars was written by a Cretan poet, Epimenides. Doubtless all educated Cretans, in ancient times and today, know this, and so are not offended.

    As for “cretin”, the word’s etymology is uncertain, but it doesn’t seem to be linked to “Crete”.

    Reply ↓

  16. >>>Bill, as Paul clearly states this verse about Cretans being liars was written by a Cretan poet, Epimenides. Doubtless all educated Cretans, in ancient times and today, know this, and so are not offended.

    Yes, and Paul elevates him to the status of “prophet” (PROFHTHS=one who speaks as God’s mouth) even though he was a playwright! Paul says:

    “This witness (hH MARTURIA) is true.”

    He even goes on to derive a plan of action based on this precept:

    Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

    So, what angle do the Anglicans play in dealing with this verse?

    Something akin to how they deal with the Lesbians?

    Bill

    Reply ↓

  17. >>>Bill, as Paul clearly states this verse about Cretans being liars was written by a Cretan poet, Epimenides. Doubtless all educated Cretans, in ancient times and today, know this, and so are not offended.

    Yes, and Paul elevates him to the status of “prophet” (PROFHTHS=one who speaks as God’s mouth) even though he was a playwright! Paul says:

    “This witness (hH MARTURIA) is true.”

    He even goes on to derive a plan of action based on this precept:

    Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

    So, what angle do the Anglicans play in dealing with this verse?

    Something akin to how they deal with the Lesbians?

    Bill

    Reply ↓

  18. >>>Bill, as Paul clearly states this verse about Cretans being liars was written by a Cretan poet, Epimenides. Doubtless all educated Cretans, in ancient times and today, know this, and so are not offended.

    Yes, and Paul elevates him to the status of “prophet” (PROFHTHS=one who speaks as God’s mouth) even though he was a playwright! Paul says:

    “This witness (hH MARTURIA) is true.”

    He even goes on to derive a plan of action based on this precept:

    Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

    So, what angle do the Anglicans play in dealing with this verse?

    Something akin to how they deal with the Lesbians?

    Bill

    Reply ↓

  19. >>>Bill, as Paul clearly states this verse about Cretans being liars was written by a Cretan poet, Epimenides. Doubtless all educated Cretans, in ancient times and today, know this, and so are not offended.

    Yes, and Paul elevates him to the status of “prophet” (PROFHTHS=one who speaks as God’s mouth) even though he was a playwright! Paul says:

    “This witness (hH MARTURIA) is true.”

    He even goes on to derive a plan of action based on this precept:

    Tit 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

    So, what angle do the Anglicans play in dealing with this verse?

    Something akin to how they deal with the Lesbians?

    Bill

    Reply ↓

  28. Bill, your quote “the Cretians are unoffended” is clearly not from me because I do not mis-spell “Cretans”. But peoples are rarely offended when one of their own writes something rude about them, although they are often offended when outsiders do the same. Jewish comedians often tell jokes about Jews which would be considered highly offensive on the lips of a Gentile. I would be very interested if you can find any evidence of Cretans, ancient or modern, being offended by what Epimenides wrote or how Paul quoted him.

    Reply ↓

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