“no question … Barack Obama is a born again man”

Official portrait of Barack ObamaStephen Mansfield in the Huffington Post quotes Joel Hunter:

There is simply no question about it: Barack Obama is a born again man who has trusted in Jesus Christ with his whole heart.

Hunter, a pastor from Florida, is apparently one of President Obama’s current team of four spiritual advisers. He reports a significant change in Obama’s life since he arrived at the White House:

Obama is having a new encounter with truth.

This means that, according to Hunter, the President would no longer suggest that all religions are essentially the same. I trust that this also means that he would now stop carrying in his pocket “a tiny monkey god”, which made me suggest in 2008 that he might in fact be a Hindu.

Meanwhile there seems to be no question that Obama’s apparently most likely opponent in this year’s elections, Mitt Romney, is not a born again Christian, at least as evangelicals would understand the term.

So who should American Christians vote for? If they choose to vote for Romney, they should at least admit to themselves and to others that they are voting for the policies they prefer, not because they want to see a Christian in the White House.

55 thoughts on ““no question … Barack Obama is a born again man”

  1. Best I can tell, at least from Obama’s Easter message, he’s a Christian. When I mentioned that on FB though, I had a friend challenge me on that claim by stating that basically Obama didn’t have the right fruits. Evidently (according to this friend, and truthfully, probably many American Christians) you can’t be a Christian and an ‘overspender’ (not even sure what that’s in reference to) and a supporter of LGBT civil rights.

    I think that too often we decide whether or not someone is a Christian based off of whether or not he has the same views on various social policy issues as us…rather on anything that the Bible would have to say about how to tell if someone is a Christian or not.

  2. Well said, Rhea. I should have linked to my post on Obama’s Easter message. I don’t have to agree with anyone’s actions or policies to recognise them as a fellow Christian. I suppose there are some policies of which, if a politician held, I would consider him or her seriously compromised and backslidden, but I don’t see that in any of Obama’s policies.

  3. In the end, it’s down to God, not to us, to decide who belongs to His family and who doesn’t. God sees and understands what’s in our hearts and knows exactly where we stand. I don’t think it’s for us to make these judgements on His behalf.

  4. Barbara, I agree with you. I don’t think I would have made such a confident assertion that any named person is born again. But I do consider this an important counterbalance to the misinformation campaigns on the American right.

  5. It was only a day or so ago that I read a quote from Rev. Jerimiah Wright, Obama’s pastor for 20 years that “he (Wright) made it easy” for Obama to convert to Christianity. He (Obama) could retain his Muslim heritage.

    Jesus plainly said that He is the only way to the Father, anyone coming in by any other path is a thief and a robber. As for Obama’s Easter message, anyone can read a sermon from a teleprompter. Someone else wrote that to give Obama a boost with the Chrisitan community.

    As to the last paragraph in the OP, I am convinced that at this point in history, it is impossible to elect an actual Christian as president in the USA. We are left with the choice of who will best lead this country back out of its present chaos.
    Either that, or not vote at all, but since we have a voice, if we refuse to vote for right principles, we are at least guilty of giving evil a victory by default, or worse, we are guilty of sin for not attempting to stop our plunge into a hedonistic society.

  6. Galveston, the Christian gospel is never that people should leave behind their heritage before coming to him, but that they should come to him “Just as I am”. But we can only assume that when Obama was baptised he repented of his sins and turned to Christ, as he would most likely have declared in the baptism liturgy.

    Anyway, did you read the article? The thrust of it seems to be that under Wright’s ministry Obama may have been a less than fully committed Christian, but he is now born again. Are you saying that you don’t believe Joel Hunter?

  7. There are many issues to consider when voting. The most crucial have to do with quality of life. Staying alive is at the top of the list. Globally, Two million people die of HIV/AIDS annually. A little less die from malaria. But over 40 million lose their lives as a result of abortion. If a candidate has aligned himself with the abortion industry, as Obama has, I will not vote for him. I will vote for the candidate who is pro-life. It’s called pro-life for a reason.

  8. Barbara, I respect your position on that issue. But it would only make sense to choose another candidate over Obama because of abortion if that other candidate has actually pledged to make a real reduction to the abortion rate. Mitt Romney’s position on that one looks somewhat uncertain. On that basis it might make more sense to look at issues where there is a substantive difference in clearly declared policies.

  9. What I am saying, Peter, is that anyone can mouth the words, but the proof is in the actions. Joel Hunter could be deceived, could he not?

    BTW, Huffington Post is clearly a liberal site, so you can expect support for Obama from there.

    No Christian can support abortion or same-sex marriage as Obama does. I know that I will catch flack for that statemant, but if your Bible does not condemn both these practices, then I wonder what translation you have.

    According to the Bible, all liars are going to have their part in the lake of fire. Mr. Obama has been very much less transparent than he promised to be when campaigning. In fact it is difficult to identify anything that he has told the truth about. Of course, it is common for politicians to lie, but then, we are not talking about politicians in general.

    The Bible is clear that if you support someone in their persuit of sinful endeavors, you are as guilty as they are. I cannot vote for Obama. If the Republican candidate comes out in favor of sinful practices, then I will have a real problem.

  10. Galveston, I agree that actions speak louder than words, here as elsewhere.

    Where does your Bible explicitly condemn either abortion or same sex marriages? I must say I wonder what translation you have. I agree that both are wrong, but this is a deduction from biblical principles, not specific biblical teaching.

    The logical implication of your principle is that you could never vote for anyone. After all, no politician finds himself or herself able to deliver on every election promise, because until they are in office they don’t know all the constraints. But let the one who is without sin cast the first ballot.

  11. Peter, I know we disagree about what the Bible says about abortion and same-sex marriage.

    Why do so many people dismiss the Apostle Paul’s letter to the Romans, chapter 1. It is a plain condemnation of same sex sex. Does anyone think that “married” homosexuals do not engage in sex? Paul isn’t the only one in the NT and then you have the prohibition in Leviticus 18:22, along with prohibition against other sexual perversions.

    Jesus Himself said that a man will join his wife and they will be one flesh. No same sex sex here.

    “Thou shalt not kill” was written in stone by the finger of God. I suppose it comes down to when you think life begins. I believe that human life is perfect from the moment of conception. The only element needed to produce a functioning human is time.

    I expect someone will come forward to tell me that the words in the Bible do not really mean what I think they do.

    Oh, well!

  12. Galveston, you “believe that human life is perfect from the moment of conception”, and so do I, but this is not explicit in the Bible. And there are various biblical institutions, such as the Old Testament concession for divorce, which are designed to regulate and limit sin, which implies that it is not clearly wrong to set up a new institution such as same sex marriage which is intended to regulate and limit what is in biblical terms a sin. I don’t dismiss Romans 1, although I have some uncertainty about how to interpret it.

    Of course I agree that strong and to me convincing arguments can be made from biblical principles against both abortion and same sex marriage. But these are human interpretations of the Bible, not its unambiguous teaching.

  13. Romans 1:26-27 talks about men exchanging ‘natural relations’ with women for relations with men, and the same with women. Assuming that that’s an accurate translation (I was just looking at the NIV), I understand it to mean that straight men shouldn’t be having sex with other men, and straight women shouldn’t be having sex with other women…b/c that would go against their ‘natural relations’.

    I’m a lesbian. I’ve known for a LONG time now. I would argue that it would be *very* unnatural for ME to have any sort of a sexual relationship with a man. That would be exchanging the truth for a lie (for me as an individual, anyway).

    As for the verse in Leviticus, I think that AT MOST it says that men should not have anal intercourse with each other. And the truth is, I know some gay men who aren’t into that…so abstaining from that wouldn’t be a problem.

  14. In terms of the pro-life issue, I just can’t see how practically Romney getting elected will mean less abortions in the US. If anything, I think that the opposite might be the case. My guess is that Romney will not be a strong advocate for various forms of birth control. If women have less access to birth control, they are more likely to find themselves in situations where abortion is an option. I understand that some individuals have issues with certain types of birth control b/c they don’t all stop fertilisation, but some only stop the implantation of the fertilised egg. But it’s not as if I think that Romney will be handing out condoms to everyone either, you know?

  15. Rhea, I don’t want to get into discussing the exegetical issues in this thread. I would agree with you that most likely Romney’s policies would not reduce the number of abortions. They might actually increase that number, if those policies include making life generally more difficult for poor single mothers (e.g. by cutting welfare and health care) and so encouraging pregnant women not to keep their children. I’m not saying that’s an argument for state handouts, just that it’s a factor which needs to be considered.

  16. I have sometimes wondered how about what follows, but Galveston’s reminder that “Thou shalt not kill” has triggered me into floating this.

    That abortion involves the taking of a life is not something I dispute. In some (small minority?) instances not aborting involves the taking of a mother’s life, perhaps leaving a number of children with no mother and a husband with no wife. How do biblical principles dictate that the unborn child must always take priority over the mother?

    Then if the taking of the child’s life is our sole or prime argument, then we should also be total pacifists (anti war) and against capital punbishment. Or we are being incosistent. Some are consistent. Obviously I do not know how Galverston feels on these other life taking situations. But many of the most militant American pro lifers we see on UK TV seem to be highly militaristic, pro capital punishement, pro the right to carry guns. Our Media are not of course always balanced or fair in their reporting.

    But how do such people conclude that biblical principles makes abortion an awful sin to be vigorously stamped out, perhaps involving taking the life of those involved, but not war, capital punishment etc. What am I missing?

  17. Colin, those are good questions, and I too would like to see answers.

    To be fair, I think most anti-abortionists would allow an abortion where there was an immediate serious danger to the mother’s life, not just a slightly heightened risk factor for her.

  18. Hi, Colin and Peter.

    I speak for no one but myself, but will answer your questions.

    Abortion: If the mother would die without an abortion, then it is pretty much a given that the baby would die too. Save the mother.

    War: If 2 conditions were met by Israel, God backed them in war. 1. Was the war justified? 2. Was Israel in compliance with God’s law at the time?

    Capital punishment: Abortion and execution for a crime are no way the same thing. The same Bible that says “Thou shalt not kill” (do no murder) also prescribes the death penalty for certain crimes.

    Guns: Honest people do not misuse guns. Criminals do that. When honest people are disarmed, criminals feel safe to do their thing.

    I hope this clarifies my opinions.

  19. I’ve never heard of Joel Hunter except when people list the president’s “spiritual advisers”. So I have no idea whether he’d be a reliable judge of when someone has genuinely repented and come to Christ. It does seem to me that Obama, as of 1994, was a Christian only in a very weak sense of liking the Christian tradition and enjoying a very watered-down politicized black church for political reasons. It wouldn’t surprise me if he’s come a long way under the influence of genuine believers, and he may well have become a genuine believer himself. But it strikes me that when he speaks of certain issues he doesn’t have the balance of scripture on his side, and he takes much out of context to support things Jesus would not have been tolerant of. He picks and chooses for political reasons when he presents his take on scripture. I don’t see those fruits of the Spirit in him. But I’d be happy to discover he’s come into the fold. Not knowing Joel Hunter, I have no idea whether he’s the sort of person to believe on this.

    As for the question you ask at the end of the post, I’m a bit confused. You seem to think that someone can’t choose to vote for a candidate based on policy while wanting a candidate who is a genuine believer. Why not? I do. I’d love to have a Christian in the White House, especially one who thinks well about the interaction between faith and the various issues the president has to deal with. If Obama is now a genuine believer, he’s shown that he isn’t such a person. Bush was much better on that score, but I’d prefer someone who’s a bit better even that Bush was. But I’m going to vote based on whether I think the person will be a good president, and there’s no question which of the two candidates would be a better president. In my view, Romney certainly would, on virtually every issue they disagree on. There are some things I think Obama is better on, and a few of those are issues that are very important to me, but I don’t think Obama is quite right on them, and he does go too far in the other direction, even if he’s closer to where I want than Romney. But the other issues clearly outweigh those in my mind, partly because there are so many of them and partly because a couple of them are of highest importance right now.

    A few replies to commenters above: There is no evidence whatsoever that Romney is pro-choice anymore. None. Whoever is pretending otherwise is misleading you. Romney had a conversion on that issue, and he’s stuck with it consistently. There are people who use his past views to question that, but Democrats should have been wondering for decades if Ted Kennedy was really pro-life by that kind of silly reasoning.

    As for Romans, I know of no serious commentator on the book of Romans who takes the view that Paul does not condemn same-sex sex. There are people who aren’t biblical scholars who have popularized such views, but those who specialize in exegesis of the text who have bothered to write commentaries on the entire book (as opposed to those writing politically-influenced discussions of homosexuality) all agree. Paul reaffirms the OT command not to have sex with people of the same sex as you. His argument makes no sense otherwise. What would be the point of complaining that people were having sex with those they didn’t have any desire to have sex with? That’s supposed to be a sin worth condemning, even if almost no one would ever do it? And what does it do for people who aren’t clearly homosexual or heterosexual? Is it wrong, then, for people with confused sexual identities to have sex with anyone?

  20. Thank you, Jeremy. I hadn’t heard of Joel Hunter either. But what he had to say interested me.

    I accept that there is middle ground between voting for the best Christian and voting for the best policies. I’m just trying to debunk the far too common argument that one shouldn’t vote for Obama because he’s a Muslim or whatever. If Romney is allowed a conversion, why isn’t Obama?

    I don’t think it is fair to the debate on Romans to accept the exegetical opinions only of those who write full length commentaries on the whole book. Anyway those people tend to be scholars of the text rather than experts on the hermeneutical and ethical issues involved. It seems clear that many Greek men had regular homosexual intercourse, so surely it was worth Paul writing against this, if he did, even if these people were not all homosexual by orientation according to modern definitions. Anyway such definitions are culturally determined and so could not be applied to ancient Greeks without anachronism.

    Perhaps more to the point, I think an argument can be made that Romans 1:18-32 is not so much Paul’s teaching as his buildup to the apparently contrary teaching of 2:1-4. Has any full length commentator even addressed this possibility?

  21. Anyone who thinks Obama is a Muslim is an idiot. But that doesn’t make him a genuine Christian. He may well be now, but I’m very sure he wasn’t in 2006. He was a secularist relativist.

  22. Quote from Peter:Perhaps more to the point, I think an argument can be made that Romans 1:18-32 is not so much Paul’s teaching as his buildup to the apparently contrary teaching of 2:1-4. Has any full length commentator even addressed this possibility?

    I do not see why you say Rom 2:1-4 contridicts what Paul wrote in chapter 1. Why look for hidden meanings in words that are straight-forward? Anyone committing sodomy cannot judge anyone else for that sin.

    There always have been those whose attitude is “Do as I say, not as I do.” Paul informs them that they will not escape judgment.

    This is more of the same thought that what we say is not as important as what we do, and it is necessary that we judge candidates on the basis of what they do.. Obama has weakened this country by nearly everything he has done. Whether he did it through ignorance or by design doesn’t really make much difference.

    Even if we assume that Obama is a Christian, a bumbling Christian does not make as good a president as a qualified, honest secularist does. In WW 2, the man who pulled England through impossible days would not rate very well by Christian standards, right?

  23. Hi folks, I would definitely struggle to support anyone who condones abortion or worse still, passes laws re the same, the partial birth abortion for example. That is without question murder.

    Regarding Romans 1, due to having the privilege of seeing people set free and healed from deep wounds and other factors leading them to embrace a same sex relationship, where thdy walk free and can enjoy a hertero

  24. …hetero relationship, I have to say experience confirms and upholds the pure and straightforward teaching of Paul to the Romans. I have remained open to the Lord showing me if I have misunderstood his teaching on these matters but having seen Him move so powerfully in lives, setting them free to live as God intended, then I have to ask the question Why would God heal, deliver and set someone free from this lifestyle, if it wasn’t against his design and plan.

    I speak this from a heart of love for those trapped by same sex desires

  25. Gillbill, thank you for your interesting comments. I understand your reluctance to support an apparently pro-abortion candidate. But see my 2008 comments on the view that “abortion transcends all other matters of morality”, as well as of politics.

    Concerning homosexuality, I wish it were true that gay people’s sexual orientation could be changed by prayer, or by medical intervention – as long as this was what the patient really wanted. But more and more ministries seem to be abandoning attempts to do this, suggesting that in fact their approaches are not very successful. So I am somewhat sceptical of your conclusions on this matter. However, this is off topic on this post so I don’t want to discuss the matter here.


  27. Salley Sue, please don’t shout at me. Since when does a Christian (I assume here that you call yourself one) bear false witness about another person? Barack Obama has publicly renounced Islam and professed his Christian faith, in baptism and more recently. You may disagree with some of his views. But if you cannot say anything good about your brother in Christ, please keep quiet.

  28. There are Muslims that believe that the Koran teaches that a Muslim may lie if by that they promote the plan of Allah.

  29. Galveston, if you are suggesting that your President is one of those Muslims, a very serious charge, do you have any evidence that he is, and is not a genuine if in some ways misguided Christian?

  30. I believe enough proof has already been posted here by myself and others that Mr. Obama is a Muslim. He has already proven himself to be a consummate liar on virtually every subject, so why should this be different?

  31. We need a name for the conspiracy theory that Obama is a secret Muslim. In the grand tradition of Truthers, Birthers, and Stolers (but not in the less-grand tradition of Dominionismists), I propose that we call them Islamers.

    Prov 26:5 (NIV): “Answer a fool according to his folly, or he will be wise in his own eyes.”

    In other words, I wonder if we’re beyond the point of offering reasonable arguments and therefore might as well resort to name-calling in order to call these people out for what they really are: irrational conspiracy theorists who are doing nothing other than name-calling based on no evidence whatsoever. Even if Obama isn’t a genuine Christian, it doesn’t follow that he’s a secret Muslim trying to implement Islamic law in the U.S., which he consistently violates all the time. It’s far more likely that he’s a secularist than a Muslim, and the events in question took place before these prominent evangelicals believe he had a conversion to evangelicalism anyway. But people immune to argument don’t pay attention to facts.

  32. HoPeter, you said you wished that homosexuality could be changed by prayer, it can. It needs the willingness of the individual and the holy spirit, to do the healing, God isn’t limited. Some cases people are homosexual due to abuse, and once that is healed, they can be heterosexual, however the fact that some are gay due to how,they are, doesn’t exclude them from being healed. The trouble with the ministeries that,deal with healing of this kind, is that they can be pushy, unrealistic and ignorant. Sometimes God just doesn’t heal for whatever reason or purpose he has for them. I know someone who is a passionate Christian and gay, who God has called to do some work for him, and will work Through his issues to.help others. On Obama, wether he is a,Christian or not he seems to keep his religion separate from his role, even his moral convictions, so to pass legislation/laws that please all groups, like pro life, and pro abortion. (Which personally I think abborant, it’s another body. What right have any one to say they are right to take his/her life? )

  33. Helen, thank you for your contribution.

    I would certainly like to believe that (to avoid the “heal” word”) homosexuals who wish to change their sexual orientation can do so through prayer. But where is the evidence? I accept that you say that this is not always successful, even if there is a real willingness to change, because God does not always want it. But if what you say is correct, there should be some kind of ministry which can point to with a track record, although not a 100% one, of leading many people to a real and lasting change of sexual orientation. Can you name such a ministry – for my information, and potentially for the benefit of some of my readers?

    As for Obama, what “pro abortion” laws has he passed? The best way to reduce the American abortion rate is not to discuss politically impossible constitutional amendments but to reduce the poverty which leads people to consider abortion. I will leave you to judge which current candidate actually cares about the relatively poor 47% of the American people.

  34. Your liberal views are plain in this post. Obama cares for the 47%? Really? Why is it better to get food stamps than a job? I can remember times when my family needed help when I was out of a job, but I had no intention of staying in that position.

    Government hand outs without any strings attached lead to dependency, which is exactly what the Democrats want, as it builds its base. Sadly, that is NOT what the Bible teaches about society.

    As to that “relatively poor 47%” I would point out that this country has squandered who knows how many billions of dollars in the attempt to eliminate poverty, and there are more people, percentage-wise now than ever. Eliminating poverty is an opium dream. It will never happen. The best thing is to create an environment where industry can flourish, then everybody benefits. That can not be done by heavy taxation.

  35. Poverty in the west is not always a grounds for abortion. For many, it is more because the timing is inconvenient, they already have 2 kids and don’t want more, or a lifestyle of casual sexual encounters resulting in pregnancy, could leave a person reluctant to bring up a child alone. Many reasons are selfish. There are enough childless couples in the world who would give their right arm to have one of these kids. People claim their ‘rights’ to have an abortion, but don’t consider the rights of the child to life!

    Obama or any leader would do well in the eyes of God to promote life, giving more power to authorities to proceed with adoptions without so much redtape,and encouraging abortion clinics to promote adoption as the first option. It’s sad that killing a baby is much easier to be allowed to do than giving that same baby a loving adoptive home as there is so much red tape to get through. It’s that way inEurope.

  36. Galveston, I make no apology for my liberal views, but also no claim that poverty can be eliminated. But when it comes to creating jobs, which candidate would you prefer, one who has turned round the disastrous situation when he came to office and has overseen creation of new jobs at a record rate for the last year or two, or one who is happy to export American jobs to China if he can make a quick buck or million by doing so? Anyway, surely “Government does not create jobs”.

    Gillyruth, I agree with you. Poverty is only one of many factors which leads people to consider abortion. But it is a proven significant one. I agree Obama would do well to promote life more. But I suspect that adoption policy is a matter for states over which the President has little control.

  37. Peter, my brother in Christ, I respectfully submit that you need to do further research on the job creating record of Mr. Obama. He has failed that as he has failed in most of what he promised. The only thing he has brought has been “change”, and not for the better. I suppose that those who really think Socialism is a good thing will continue to support him as will those who are deceived.

    His support for the homosexual agenda alone, without all the other issues, is enough for me to say “NO” to four more years for him.

  38. Galveston, thank you for your challenge, which I just took up. I went to the official Bureau of Labor Statistics page for unemployment statistics for the last ten years. The graph speaks for itself, and the monthly figures it is based on are given below. The unemployment rate was rising rapidly from April 2008 to May 2009. It then leveled off until late 2010 and followed by a slow but steady decline until last month, when it fell below the rate in Obama’s first full month in office. Given that he took office in late January 2009 and changes in economic policies always take a few months to be implemented and have a real effect, there is good reason to think that it is Obama’s policies which led to the turnaround which started in about May that year, and certainly no reason to blame him for the admittedly still very high unemployment rate.

    Of course the counter-argument is “Government does not create jobs” and these changes would have happened whoever had been President. No doubt that is part of the truth. But any suggestion that Obama has made things worse flies in the face of the evidence.

    Now you are welcome to oppose Obama for his policies on abortion (but check first what his policy is) and same sex marriage, or even for his alleged “Socialism” in daring to think that rich people should pay as much tax as the middle class. But please don’t misrepresent him as making unemployment worse when in fact he has made it better.

  39. Thanks for the reply Peter. In all things, we need to ask’what would Jesus do’ and he would advocate life every time. Abortion in that case will never reflect his heart. Therefore as his people we need to do all we can to support life, and encourage legislation which promotes adoption and discourages abortion.
    Abortion is murder regardless of how we package it up to sound more palatable. This must break the father’s heart. If it was put in black and white, fewer people would have abortions I reckon. To experience the death of a child through the process of abortion has a great impact on a woman’s psyche. How often are these facts highlighted? It’s a big money maker for abortionists who have blood on their hands.

  40. Dear Peter
    People can get delivered from being gay. The person has to want to be delivered, and there has to be someone that understands deliverance. The difference between the person that is gay, and a murderer, or adultery is a different spirit. GOD made one man, and one woman, then said you begin. That spirit of being gay goes against GOD’s creation.
    There are ministries that have, and still deliver that spirit from people, in the name of Jesus. I have witnessed that before. The person, once delivered from that spirit has to continue to say no to that spirit. Just like it says in the word, that if a spirit leaves a person, it will return if the person does not fill their spirit with the Holy Spirit, and continue to listen only to the Holy Spirit as we should all do. It says I will go back, if the place I was is swept, and clean, and bring more. One ministry I know right off is , the ministry of Benny Hinn.

  41. I do find it interesting…no, annoying….that non-Americans feel they have such a right to post such strong opinions on AMERICAN politics and AMERICAN candidates when they a) have no vested interest [and the “America is a leader and impacts the world” argument doesn’t fly…b/c the UK is a global leader and Americans don’t get a say in British politics], and b) has nothing with which to BASE their opinions on but hear say from friends/family, the ramblings of politically biased news stations, and theory. Even those whose jobs may leave them to interact with American policies/economy/etc. have no right to broadcast such an opinion, unless they have chosen to become American citizens…and they CERTAINLY don’t have a right to all but campaign for candidates as I’m seeing on your blog. So please, if you’re going to blog about politics…please keep it to your own? Otherwise, I look forward to reading more posts on the Bible and your walk with God.

  42. Gen, I have several points to make in reply here:

    1. I am resident in the USA and so directly affected by political decisions here, although as a British citizen I don’t have a vote.

    2. Don’t most Americans “BASE their opinions” mostly on “hear say from friends/family, the ramblings of politically biased news stations, and theory”?

    3. I am not basing what I write here on hearsay, but verifiable quotations. If you wish to deny what Joel Hunter said, please provide some evidence that this is not a genuine quotation. Or do you want to dispute that Romney is a Mormon?

    4. Yes, I do have a right to express my opinion. Have you not read that “all men [not just US citizens] are created equal … are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights … among these are … Liberty”? Or that “Congress shall make no law … abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances”? I have an inalienable right of freedom of speech, regardless of my citizenship, and I resent anyone trying to deny this.

  43. I agree with you Peter, you absolutely have the right to speak your mind. Thank God that is still the case in the USA, at least.

    Having said that, on the question of whether Mr. Obama is a Christian, you are wrong, and I believe that time will prove that to you.

  44. Well, Galveston, I was reporting the words of others, not giving my own opinion. I guess the time will come when we all see who is in the kingdom of God and who is in the outer darkness, if that is what you mean. Until that time, and despite the valiant attempts of Adrian Warnock to define what is a Christian, the best definition I can come up with is that a Christian is anyone who calls themself one. And on that definition Barack Obama is certainly a Christian.

  45. On Pro-Abortion: Where is the issue? Do we not have freedom of choice contingent upon each individuals situation? The chances are in the favor that a ‘born from above’ Christian either will be willing to be held accountable and be reliable in situations prior to becoming pregnant in the first place. And if pregnant by any means other than Love it is up to that person’s (persons) situation to decide through prayer. This is not advocating abortion, it is simply not making it a crmie to have one. Considering in the time of Leviticus babies were EATEN . Which is worse, eating your baby or the Word of God? Is not an aborted child already to be in the Kingdom? Will not the mother suffer if she also is a child of God (if in fact, she even has an abortion). Separation of church and state. In regard to sexuality, Paul abstained from sex altogether. Realizing, homosexulaity was not even a word that existed at the time, and likely referred to as noted earlier, un-natural inclinations of men having sex with young boys…Jesus did not advocate marriage and stated that in fact that if it is not right for a person, not to do so. There is no marriage in heaven.. “On earth, as it is in heaven”. In that regard, people do get married for the wrong reasons at times. IN regard to Adam and Eve, “For this Reason..” is seen as meaning they Know each other as in YADA…to get closer to God, to become “WHOLE” again as the ‘rib’ was removed from Adam. It can go back as far as how one interprets the Garden Story. Yet, “Christmas and Easter” Christians get married in churches..any one can get married, even an atheist. So then, if two homosexual atheists want to get married, why should they deprived of that right? People ass-ume same sex indiviuals participate in all forms of ‘horrid’ behavior, yet turn right around and look at all the horrid conditions children are growing up in due to heterosexual marriages? It comes down to the heart. Are we to deprive God Fearing Christians the Right that Married couples have that are atheists who get married in Las Vegas? This is not about non-believers..only to make a point. We can stretch the point both ways . One can not assume, presume, project, nor opinionate something they truly know-nothing about , but would like to think we do. Are we to assume there are Enlightened Christian Individuals who are not living according to the Law but rather have entered into the Kingdom of God in Knowledge and Understanding with a pure heart and how behave accordingly, yet in marriage?.In either case, “The Law” never says a thing about homosexuality, no, not in Leviticus nor anywhere but through Paul. Having had his experience, we also would bear to recall what he had seen and experienced prior to being Converted, and the audience whom he was addressing and the atrocities of man-kind at that time . To lie with another can mean a lot of things. Some believe that King James was homosexual…interesting concept per the information out there, but neither here nor there. For all we know, Paul was homosexual. Did he ever marry. It looks unlikely. But he also felt it was better to marry than to have unmarried sex, which perhaps homosexuals were not able to realize at the time. Which means, they would be having unmarried sex. The tables can turn either way is the point, but in any case it was never a part of Jesus Teachings. Did he not heal the ‘lepers’..in spite of themselves. To assume people of same sex orientation require a healing is to ‘assume’ God did not make them to be such for a reason. Why?> Because it is often the other side of the coin that can see through the fog that those whom are in it can not. God loves Diversity, and many Trees in the Garden bear Good fruits. People are driven to suicide and self-loathing and doubt due to self-righteous individuals claiming it has to be “this way or the highway” …when, ‘forgive them Father for they Know not what they do”. If even looking lustfully at another individual while married is adultery and all sins are equal, (since we are all sinners)…then what difference does it make?

  46. Stephen, thank you for your comment. I think I agree with what I see as your main point, that moral issues are matters between people and God and it is not for the government to get involved. Of course the government does have a responsibility to keep order in society, and for that reason it rightly legislates against homicide. So the real issue of debate on abortion is whether it is a matter of personal morality or a form of homicide. On same sex marriage, I agree that there is no good reason for a legal ban on it.

  47. Well, Stephen certainly left us a rant with a basket-full of twisted reasoning, but still off-topic.

    Another proof that Mr. Obama is not a Christian. There is currently a pastor Saeed, born in Iran, now citizen of the USA back in Iran and arrested. He faces the possibility of the death sentence. His crime? Born a Muslim he converted to the Christian faith.
    The Quran says that a Muslim who leaves Islam should be killed. I believe the word is fatwah that is marked against that person. Any Muslim should kill him if he gets the chance.
    It is admitted that Barry Sotero (Barack Obama) was born and raised Muslim. Is there any fatwah against him? Is he afraid to travel and mix with Muslims? He hasn’t even had a shoe thrown at him.

    So, according to the Muslim holy book, no fatwah, no conversion.

  48. Galveston, you are right that Stephen’s comment was off topic. But by whom “It is admitted that … (Barack Obama) was born and raised Muslim”? His father may have been born a Muslim but was converted to Christianity, then became an atheist. So our President was not born a Muslim. He may have had some Muslim influence from his stepfather, “much more of a free spirit than a devout Muslim”, but while in Indonesia he attended a Roman Catholic school. So there is basically no evidence at all that Barack Obama was ever a Muslim.

  49. Anyway Muslims have tried to kill Barack Obama. For example,

    In May 2011 Irish Muslim militant Khalid Kelly was arrested for threatening to assassinate Barack Obama. In an interview with the Sunday Mirror he said that al-Qaeda was likely to kill Obama on his upcoming trip to Ireland. He reportedly said he would like to do it himself, but was too well known. He stated, “Personally I would feel happy if Obama was killed. How could I not feel happy when a big enemy of Islam is gone?”

    And then the infamous Osama Bin Laden also plotted to kill Obama. That none of these Muslims have got close to the President is testimony to the efficiency of his security services.

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