Todd Bentley in England: all change

A little over a month ago I reported that Todd Bentley was planning a visit to England in September. Today I received a comment here which is also confirmed at the Revival Fires website indicating that this visit will now not be going ahead as previously planned. Kelvin Reed (I’m not sure if he is a spokesman for Revival Fires or simply passing on what he has read at their site) writes:

We have just learned that it hasn’t been possible to arrange Todd Bentley’s planned visit to the NEC on September 20th – 23rd as the venue became unavailable. … Our apologies to anyone who has made any arrangements on the basis of the original information …

I must say I find this strange. To be fair, Revival Fires always made it clear that these details were provisional. But surely dates would not have been announced without checking that the NEC would be available on those days. So why would the venue become unavailable?

I can think of two possible reasons: one, that the NEC management has refused to accept Todd Bentley, perhaps because his ministry has been misrepresented to them; or two, that insufficient funds have been raised to make advance payments. As someone who has given to Revival Fires in response to a specific appeal for funds to hire the NEC for Todd, I would like to get some clarification on this issue, and on what Revival Fires will do with the money that has been raised. Of course I can allow them time to make their decision, and I have no objection to a change to a different venue. But I would like to see a clear explanation of what is happening.

0 thoughts on “Todd Bentley in England: all change

  1. HI Peter. I enjoy reading your blog, and thank you for it being well balanced on Lakeland and not allowing the discussions to descent into personal abuse and name calling which I have seen in other discussions.

    This is from the revival fires website.

    Update on Todd Bentley’s planned visit to the UK
    We have just learned that it hasn’t been possible to arrange Todd Bentley’s planned visit to the NEC on September 20th – 23rd as the venue became unavailable. Unfortunately with events of this scale there can be late changes to arrangements and we are awaiting news from the event organisers on when Todd will be visiting, and where the event will be held. Our apologies to anyone who has made any arrangements on the basis of the original information and we will pass on confirmed information as soon as it is available. We recommend people wait until they have official confirmation from the venue before booking accommodation or travel.

    Revival Fires will be holding a special event on the dates of the original visit, September 20th – 23rd, for all those who will be in the area. Trevor Baker, Ken Gott and others who are carrying the anointing will be ministering powerfully and we know this will be a powerful time of God’s manifest presence in the heart of the nation, with far reaching impact for all who attend. More details to follow.

    I am sorry that is not happening and they do need to clarify things because reading that is still slightly confusing.

  2. Pingback: Gentle Wisdom » Todd Bentley to move on from Lakeland

  3. Thanks Bill. I was intrigued by the comments of the NEC spokesperson at the end of the report. “Discussions are taking place” suggests that it wasn’t simply a case of “are we free or not”. “We always carry out a vigorous risk assessment” suggests that the discussions were related to safety and, presumably, NEC liability. E.g. “We’ve read he kicks people in the head. What if he did that and someone was injured? – we could be sued because, knowing that it might happen, we failed to prevent it.” A professionally reasonable viewpoint considering some of the awful press coverage Todd’s attracted.
    But God knew this was going to happen because He’s clever! A guy once came to me for prayer and before he said anything I had a clear picture in my imagination of a stream in which a concrete block had been placed to dam it. The stream was held back for a while but, as the level rose behind the dam, it started flowing over the whole of the surrounding countryside. It turned out to be relevent to that guy and it may be relevent to this situation. I believe that God intends to do a new thing in the UK church and the old, albeit sometimes successful, “mission” approach to evangelism is being replaced by a new vehicle that can bring about national change. If so,the loss of the NEC crusade may actually encourage the new to come into being.

  4. I was forced to unapprove a comment on this post, the first such case in all these discussions of Todd Bentley apart from obvious spam, because it contained a libel against Trevor Baker. This is the comment from Bill which Duncan was replying to above. Here is part of Bill’s comment to give context to Duncan’s comment:

    One of the Sunday Mercury articles is below –
    “US sex offender is coming to preach in the Midlands
    Jul 5 2008

    Todd Bentley, 32, is due to take centre stage at Birmingham NEC in September after being asked to attend by a Christian church in Dudley.

    Bentley has been invited to the Midlands by Trevor and Sharon Baker, who run the Revival Fires Church in Dudley.
    Born-again Christian Trevor, 55, defended the Canadian-born preacher and said: “I’ve known Todd for six years and during that time he has been a man of real integrity.
    “He has a chequered history and has written a book about this. He was brought up in a trailer park with all that means in America.
    “He was 18 years-old when he became a Christian and his life completely changed from that point on.
    “Ninety days ago he held a healing weekend in Florida. So many people were cured that the process has continued since then.
    “I went over 10 weeks ago to see what was going on. Then when I got back to Dudley I held a conference with people I knew over the last 10 years and people began to be healed.
    “One woman had a rare form of cancer and God touched her and she became pain free. When she visited her doctor she said he told her she was cured.
    “Another woman was 70 per cent deaf. But after attending the meeting and arriving home she had to turn down the TV because it was too loud.
    “She hasn’t had to wear a hearing aid since.”
    He added: ”Todd does not always kick people to cure them. I have only known him to do this on three occasions.
    “Most of the healing takes place through him praying and touching them.”
    A spokeswoman for Bentley and Fresh Fire Ministries said: “Todd was 13 years-old when he abused a child. God is not looking for perfect people. Moses was a murderer.
    “We don’t focus on the criticism. Jesus Christ had critics.
    ”Todd has not kicked anyone during the revival currently taking place in Florida. It’s very rare. He never does anything like that without first asking for the person’s permission.”
    An NEC spokeswoman said the religious rally had not yet been confirmed, although discussions were taking place.
    She added: “We host a wide range of events and concerts for all audiences and tastes to meet our customer needs, and always carry out a vigorous risk assessment for all events.”

  5. I have found that the Sunday Mercury article I quoted in the previous comment is online here. I note that “The boot-clad biker has been filmed kicking a man with colon cancer in the stomach” is a lie, as I proved here.

  6. After writing “the first such case in all these discussions of Todd Bentley” I discovered in my spam box two other comments, identical with one another, along similar lines but from a different author, passing on the same kinds of libel about Trevor Baker. As these comments are not technically spam I retrieved one from the spam box and instead put it into moderation. I did this simply to keep a private record of the libels people are trying to post here.

  7. This is a real answer to prayer, as enough people have been demonized under his ministry already without anymore in England.

  8. David, would you care to explain your theological basis, in the light of Matthew 7:9-11, for believing that people being prayed for in the name of Jesus are being demonised?

  9. I have to say I am still concerned Peter, and I know you have kindly answered my queries before, but when Todd prays for people they often convulse, and the only reference to people convulsing in scripture is when they were possessed by demons before Jesus commanded the demon/s to leave.

    that concerns me a great great deal, and I will be interested to hear your thoughts.

  10. Hannah, I see your point. All I can say is that I have seen these kinds of convulsions in people close to me and even felt them myself to some extent. I can’t explain them. Maybe they are something to do with evil spirits attacking the person who is being prayed for. But the convulsions in the people out of whom Jesus was casting demons do not mean that Jesus was putting the demons into these people, but the reverse. So convulsions in people to whom Todd is ministering don’t mean that Todd is doing anything wrong.

  11. Pingback: Gentle Wisdom » Todd Bentley is coming to England in September

  12. With regard to people being demomised, a person can only give what they have. Acts3 v6. 2 Corinthians Ch 11 states that many will recieve anoyher Jesus or another spirit. When some accepts body peircing and tattoos they are opening themselves up to the demonic realm.

  13. With regard to your question of how can a person recieve a demon and you quoted Matt Ch7. The Bible clearly tells us in 2 Corinthians Ch 11 that many will recieve another spirit or another Jesus. A man can only give what he has. Acts Ch 3 v 6. Levictus Ch 19 v 28 states that body peircing and tattoos are a sigm of rebellion to God. Rebellion is the same as witchcraft. 1Samuel Ch15 v23. It is obvious that Todd has not repented of this occultic practice as he would no longer have body peircing ( easier to remove than tattoos). In the light of all this it is quite easy to understand that demonic spirits are being imparted. This is not surprising as many people were never set free from the invasion of the enemy in what was blatently called a”move of God from Toronto”. The writer was used by the Lord extensively to deliver many people from this phenonomen where people were doing all sorts of manifestations and they put it down to God’s blessing. If people would only believe the Word of God, instead of seeking signs then they would understand that The Lord Jesus has warned people beforehand what will happen in the last days. Matthew Ch 24v 24. But people have a choice, but as for me and my household we will serve the Lord and continue to set those free who so desire. And I have seen the blind see the dead raised the lepers cleansed the lame walk and the deaf and the poor have the gospel preached to them. Without looking for signs.

  14. David, there is nothing in the Bible specifically against body piercing, as long as it is not done “for the dead” as in Leviticus 19:28.

    I too, without searching them out, “have seen the blind see the dead raised the lepers cleansed the lame walk and the deaf and the poor have the gospel preached to them” – at Lakeland and Toronto (on TV) and at meetings associated with them. These are the signs that the Messiah, not demons, is at work, Matthew 11:2-6.

  15. Peter do you think that the Lord is speaking in Leviticus about’the dead’ being your grandmother or someone, of course not. He is speaking about Spirits of the dead. as in Necromancy/ Mediums/ Spiritulists. I have many testimonies of ministry that demons would not leave people until the earings were taken out. Read Judges Ch 8 v 23 It was the custom of the Ishmaelites (anti Christ) to wear earings. But someone who is decieved does not realise it. So if you have been involved then you will be blinded to the truth. The Bible states in Romans Ch 3 v3 ‘Let God be true and every man a liar. If this is a true move of God then all churches need to be designed in the future with a tattoo parlour built inside the vestibule to get the full anointing????? I THINK NOT.

  16. Everyone involved needs to be delivered from the impartation of the demons. You cannot just come out of it, that is a start. But there has to be a renoucing then get someone who is not involved to cast the demons out of you, otherwise those demons will stay in your soul, to decieve you once again. The same procedure as someone coming from any occult/ Freemason etc involvment.

  17. But someone who is decieved does not realise it. So if you have been involved then you will be blinded to the truth.

    That is a pretty poor line of argument. No-one can ever question your views or they are obviously “blinded”, meaning your views carry on with impunity.

    That sounds more like the pope than a blog discussion.

    Demons in their soul? Is that a technical term or a turn of phrase?

    Should the disciples have been exorcised the day after Pentecost?

  18. David, it was also the custom of the Israelites, men and women, to wear ear-rings, Exodus 32:2, 35:22, Song of Songs 1:10,11, with not a hint of condemnation. I suppose some people wear ear-rings as part of occult activity, but many others just because it is fashionable. Todd has never suggested that all Christians should be tattooed. Of course no one can get the Holy Spirit of God out of them, except perhaps by renouncing him which may be the unforgivable blasphemy against him.

  19. Hello. I have been a main contributor to a thread on the Ship of Fools christian website entitled “Florida Revival”. The same curiosity about the NEC cancellation was raised there, so I phoned the NEC and asked them.

    It is true that refurbishment work is going on now and into next year on different parts of the facility. However, it is not true that the Arena is unavailable for use during the dates in question. An adjacent venue is having work done on it, but an alternative adjacent venue is available.

    This is the second instance in which I have found inconsistencies in what has been claimed by Bentley and/or Fresh Fire Ministries by the simple expedient of working the phones to check the facts.

    I’m not claiming they are deliberately being misleading, but I think they demonstrate a cavalier attitude to the truth which does no harm to the extravagant claims made and helps explain why things have now come unstuck for them. As another regular poster on the Ship has memorably said,

    “It is easy to deceive yourself if you think truth is merely a matter of effective representation”

  20. Eutychus, thank you for checking up on this. But if the venue is “unavailable” it is surely because someone high up has made a specific decision not to host Todd, the sort of information which I would hope they would not divulge to third parties. Or from the point of view of Revival Fires the venue would genuinely be “unavailable” if they didn’t have the money to pay for it.

    But then, in the light of the latest news, it seems likely that a lot was going on behind the scenes which was being kept quiet for the sake of Todd and his family, until someone breached their privacy.

  21. it looks more likely it was cancelled due to a marital indiscretion, check out freshfire’s website… there’s a message from the board of directors…

    where was Todd’s accountability team?

  22. where was Todd’s accountability team?

    Busy holding him to account, as they have been doing behind the scenes all along, and now more publicly after someone revealed details which should have been kept private. See my posts of the last few days for more on this.

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