At the risk of being accused of fuelling revival on my blog by blatantly posting on a subject which brings many hits, as Lingamish (now David Ker) was accused of doing, I will mention Todd Bentley’s tattoos here. Today I was watching some recorded extracts from one of his evenings, and he was wearing a T-shirt with the slogan “JESUS Loves me & MY TATTOOS!” And his neck and forearms emerging from the T-shirt were indeed covered with tattoos, as I had seen before.
When I first saw this I thought that he must have got all these tattoos during his days as a drug dealer, before he dramatically became a Christian and started on his evangelistic and healing ministry. But apparently not. I have Todd’s 2004 book “Christ’s Healing Touch volume 1” (I don’t know if there is a volume 2), and this is illustrated with a number of pictures of him preaching and healing at various campaigns around the world, most in Third World countries. So don’t say he ignores the Third World! Several of these pictures clearly show his neck and forearms without tattoos. So he must have got all the tattoos within the last few years, when he was already a Christian in a major ministry.
As for what this means, I don’t know. I’m sure some people will see it as proof that he is of the devil. To me at least it shows that God is able to use powerfully a man with tattoos, and that getting tattoos is not an unforgivable sin!
These older pictures also show Todd with a mess of curly blond hair on the top of his head. Mike M wrote in a comment here that Todd was bald, and wondered why God hadn’t healed him of this. But surely baldness is not a sickness, but rather a glorious part of how God made some men “very good”? In a further comment I suggested that Todd was not actually bald but that he had shaved his head. But looking more closely I see that both are true. Some of the TV pictures clearly show very short hair growing at the back and sides of his head, but not on top. So Todd has done what many balding men do: he has shaved his whole head to disguise his advancing baldness. Why not? He certainly has more street cred in his appearance like that than as the boyish blond in the older pictures. Yes, I’m sure that is deliberate, becoming like the people on the street to win the people on the street.
But I must say I wondered if I should even post about trivia like tattoos and baldness as I watched bald, tattooed Todd taking testimonies. That evening, as well as several dramatic healings testified to by nurses who had brought their sick patients for healing, there were no less than four testimonies of people being raised from the dead. These included a stillborn baby, a woman who dropped dead in a gym, and a baby who drowned in a pool; medical or paramedical staff had given up on all of these but after prayer they came back to life. Most dramatic was the story of a three year old girl who was pronounced dead on a Monday night and came back to life on the Wednesday morning, in a hospital on the way to being cut up for organ donation.
Mike M asks why the mainstream media do not report healings and raisings from the dead. Surely the answer is obvious. Their reporters and editors cannot cope with this kind of thing as they, like most people in the western world who have been “educated” into a materialist worldview, don’t believe such things are possible. Indeed, as I wrote nearly two years ago, even most evangelical Christians in the West are Bible deists, by which I mean, among other things, that while professing to be Bible-believing Christians they don’t actually believe that God does anything in the world today. So for these people, as well as for those with a materialistic and atheistic worldview, miraculous healing simply cannot happen, and therefore any reports of it must be fakes. They are simply embarrassed by any proofs of genuineness. The media are dominated by people who think like this and so avoid reporting what they simply assume, despite the best evidence to the contrary, to be fakes.
Nevertheless, whether the media report it or not,
The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor.
Luke 7:22 (TNIV)
Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of what the Holy Spirit is doing through Todd Bentley and others involved in this outpouring.
Interesting about the tattoos…my friends and I have been discussing tattoos on Christians recently. As far as I know, tattoos were only prohibited by God of the Jews…there is no mention of them in the NT…is that correct?
Tattoos seems to be something that it PERFECTLY acceptable in some Christian circles, while being condemned in others.
Thank you, Rhea. My own take on this would be that tattoos were prohibited to the ancient Israelites because in that situation they were signs of idolatrous religion. In our own situation they are not, so tattoos should not be considered prohibited. But there is an argument that Christians should not be defacing their bodies, and I’m not so sure about that one.
There has been quite a bit of discussion about this subject in the last year or so at Lingamish and (believe it or not!) Ancient Hebrew Poetry.
Peter:
I think that I tend to agree with you regarding tattoos. One thing I would say is that I think that getting a tattoo could be a sin for one Christian, but not another. For some it could be a sort of “idol” but not for others. I think that there are probably quite a few things like that in our lives…things that are fine for one person to do/have, while they would be sin for another.
I can’t believe Todd’s tats are causing issues for people. Personally I would never get a tat myself, but I can’t for a minute think why it would be a sin, no more than styling one’s hair, sunbathing or working out in gym. As long as the content of the tat is not deliberately trying to offend or blaspheme, I see no cause for concern here. I for one am glad that Bentley is not in a sharp white suit and squeaky clean. At least in this area, I see authenticity.
I note that the secular media have not entirely ignored the Lakeland outpouring. Terry Virgo writes the following:
It would be interesting to see if CNN actually said that healings and miracles were taking place, or only that some people were claiming this. Anyway, it can no longer be claimed that the mainstream media are entirely ignoring these events.
Terry’s comments are helpful, as to be expected from such an important leader, but it is sad that they were coloured by a negative experience, concerning prayer requests to be sent to Jerusalem, which had nothing to do with Todd Bentley except for being on the same TV channel.
Tattoos are forbidden by God. Lev 19.28 is plain. God’s law to His children is not nullified by the gospel of Jesus. This isn’t some free-for-all now. If you are saved, you will walk according to the righteousness of God’s law. Otherwise you are showing that you are still in your sins. “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.” (Mat 5.17) Thinking otherwise puts you in the group of the divorcing and remarrying adulterers, the sodomites, and all other sinners who turn the grace of God into lasciviousness (Jude v4), and do not know that “the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. (Tit 2.11-12) Grace leads to holiness, and separation, not worldliness and an unsound mind (2Tim 1.7). There is nothing sober or sound of mind about the Bentley non-sense. It is like the drunk in the spirit foolishness. You all need to wake up and repent.
Furthermore, one of the signs scripture gives of one demon possessed was the cutting in his flesh. Mrk 5.5 Getting tattoos is making cuttings in the flesh. There is blood letting. It seems to be a sort of blood sacrifice to Satan.
Do not be deceived by some who parade around with some smooth words and think that they are of God. We are to test the spirits to see if they are of God (1Jhn 4.1). We are to try those who say they are apostles (Rev 2.2), we are to be Bereans and see if what someone is saying is true (Acts 17.11).
Remember the lesson of those hypocrites in Mat 7. Jesus said “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”
Bentley is purports to “prophesy” in Christ’s name, supposedly doing many wonderful works. But is a demon influenced, if not possessed nutcase using some demon named Emma, the King of Hell (look it up). He has fallen for Satan. Remember “Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.” (2Cor 11.14)
It is absolutely amazing that the so-called “Church” of today has so little discernment. Just following anything that smacks of exciting, spiritual, new, fresh and whatever else scratches your etching ears. Fools.
“And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Ths 2.11-12)
You are all showing that your are still in your sins as you run to follow the lie.
Turn from your lusts. Repent and believe the gospel truth.
dcbenczarski@sbcglobal.net
Don, this is where I fundamentally disagree with you. Jesus died to set us free from bondage to the OT law. I agree this does not mean a free-for-all, but God has made the moral standards he requires clear in the New Testament. Ironically it is cutting of the flesh, circumcision, which is the clearest example of an OT law which does not apply to NT believers. You are the one who is still in bondage to the OT law and so needs to repent and turn to the gospel of freedom.
My ears bled a bit when I had them pierced, (so I could wear small and tasteful earrings while maintaining an active lifestyle.) So, in Don’s opinion,..which is a vastly different thing than discernment,..was I then “letting blood”,..and in so doing, sacrificing to satan? Crazy conclusion.
Don, the word warns against those who attribute the works of the Holy Spirit that are past their personal grid of experience or comprehension,..to the evil one. You are treading on dangerous ground.
I personally have read of and seen 4 of Todd’s tattoos that are clearly occultic, ones he has gotten recently. An upside down Jesus death mask with superimposed oni demon. A flaming eye which means clairvoyance. A demon in a rose on his neck, and a medusa with nipple rings on his leg. I’m sure there is more, but I just haven’t run across them yet.
BTW it is perfectly legitimate to use the Leviticus scripture to condemn the use of tattoos. After all the law condemns adultery and we (so far) agree that a bad thing to do. You have to use common sense. God put these things in the bible for a reason, not to be dismissed lightly. Tattooing is an ugly fleshly thing to do that should be confined to sailors. I know you agree with me even if you may object. I know you do!
There are many many reasons why we greycoats object to Todd, his teachings, his practices, his associations and his obvious fabricaions. It has to do with Holy Spirit discernment not some kind of Pharaceutical phalse judgements. When you throw that judging thingy up you are just straw-manning it.
My conjunction would be to avoid this man and his strange fire. Save yourselves. Check out some websites before you dimiss what I’m saying. You should always check things out, especially religious things. I know you agree with me.
I have also seen many pictures of his tattoos. I am not condemning people with tattoos but I don’t think you people have researched Todd enough!
Even if, as you say, it is now ok to get tattoos.. how do you explain Todd being covered with demonic ones? I have also seen the ‘Jesus death mask’ one which has a demonic monkey in the beard and that ‘oni’ thing. He also has the masonic ‘all seeing eye’ and an inverted cross. On his chest he has a skull in a rose with some evil words.. can’t remember what they say. And on his knee (I think) he has a beast with medussa like hair, naked with pierced nipples.
So, ok.. he’s not your run-of-the-mill preacher, he want’s to be himself, a bit contraversial. But if being ‘himself’ means he wants to adorn himself with satanic imagery then I don’t feel he’s someone I want ‘imparting’ spirits to me.
Yes healings are taking place, but we are very early on in this ‘revival’ we need people following up these ‘healings’ for years down the line.
It’s also important to note that new age therapies such as ‘reiki’ claim healing, I’m sure we all agree reiki is not from God.
So…Peter, is bestiality okay with you? Child molestation? Marrying your sister? Show me the NT guidelines that God has provided to cover these and host of other sins.
Many of God’s commandments are not restated in the NT. It is foolish and disobedient to a Holy God to ignore His righteousness and have 1/3 of a Bible. Just like Jehudi who cut up the Word of God with a penknife. You don’t like, you want to conform to the pagans around you, just get rid of God’s Word. But do it in a seemingly justifiable theological way so it seems nice.
A true Christian knows that what Jesus set us free from was obedience to the Law for justification. Christ is our justification – His blood atonement alone. Not our works.
God did not set you free from obedience to the standard of righteousness as revealed in the OT, unless that specific portion was abrogated by the NT (having been fulfilled in Christ and having been given as symbols). E.g. circumcision was the symbol of the covenant, dietary laws were abrogated in Acts 10, etc. The NT still references the OT for righteousness, as in 1Cor 14 and the silence of women in churches. Oh, you likely got rid of that commandment too, didn’t you. That is what Rom 3. 19-21 teaches. All are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, but we are not to be justified by that law. We are to be justified by the righteousness of God, which is by faith in Jesus.
As is the case with Pentecostals, Roman Catholics etc., and as Jesus spoke, “Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.” Mark 7.
You people have your circus acts posing as men of God, like Todd Bentley. Men who have only a lip service to God, but a heart exercised in covetousness practices.
You are all forgetting that in the last days there will be great tribulation, and you are falling for the great deception as the forerunner to anti-christ.
“For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.” Mat 24. 21-24
“And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” 2Thes 2.11-12
“But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.” 2Tim 3.13
You are all under a great delusion. God is sending this delusion because you have all loved the lie of unrighteousness, and have turned from the Truth unto fables, that soothe your itching ears. You have turned from God’s righteousness and have followed lies. You have perverted His Word (NIV and such), and have left the truth because you have pleasure in unrighteousness. You are listening to the “doctrines of devils,” and “The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love [to have it] so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?”
Repent and believe the gospel, turn from your sins and your love for the lusts of this life (your health and wealth). There is hope in the True Jesus of the Bible, and not the idol “jesus” you have created.
To add to Laura’s thought.
Haven’t you seen the tattoo of the lion and the lamb? By the way where is that in scripture? It’s not.
But the horrible part is Todd’s scripture reference directly below the picture. He references 1 Peter 5. The lion scripture in 1 Peter 5 states, “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:” Does this escape all of you?
In this scripture the lion is the devil, who seeks to devour. The lamb is obviously the people of God (under the Good Shepherd). When they are together guess what will happen? So what is Todd saying with this connection? The devil is coming after you, and you are laying with him through the ministry of Todd Bentley.
All you “signs and wonders” deceived ones should have gotten that sign, but it is no wonder you haven’t. You have pleasure in unrighteousness, so you will believe the lie…
Roxanna,
The blood letting was in reference to tattoo and making markings in your flesh. You are the one who is being dangerous.
Second, the Word warns against attributing Jesus working by the Holy Spirit to beelzebub.
The scripture commands to “try the spirits, to see if they are of God.”
You are treading on dangerous ground by assuming that Todd is doing a work of the Spirit, and not by his “angels” (I would say fallen ones).
Don wrote:
>>>”…A true Christian knows that what Jesus set us free from was obedience to the Law for justification.”
As opposed to being free from the law itself? This is a false, unscriptural distinction.
>>>Christ is our justification – His blood atonement alone.
Actually, “it is God who justifies” and he does so on the basis of “faith.” Christ never justified anyone. No was the blood of Jesus ever said to be an atonement that justifies. God is the only justifier of men. Jesus’ death was to justify God, not men. Ignore your traditions when you read the text and you might get it.
>>>Not our works.
What is your definition of “works?”
>>>God did not set you free from obedience to the standard of righteousness as revealed in the OT, unless that specific portion was abrogated by the NT (having been fulfilled in Christ and having been given as symbols).
Hogwash.
>>>E.g. circumcision was the symbol of the covenant,
It still is – of the Mosaic covenant.
>>>dietary laws were abrogated in Acts 10, etc.
Acts is the story of the move from the Jerusalem apostles to Paul, and from their gospel to his. In Paul’s gospel, the believer is dead to the whole law.
>>>The NT still references the OT for righteousness, as in 1Cor 14 and the silence of women in churches.
The torah did not forbid the silence of women. Either Paul was wigged out on LSD that day or he was referring to a local prohibition in Corinth.
>>>Oh, you likely got rid of that commandment too, didn’t you.
Which commandment?
>>>That is what Rom 3. 19-21 teaches. All are under the law,
Actually, Romans 3 is specifically about non-believing Jews. Unbelieving gentiles are covered in chapter 2. Paul distinguishes between those under the law and those not. And believers, Jewish or not, are not under the law.
>>>that every mouth may be stopped, but we are not to be justified by that law.
Well, if the law is given to make **believers** guilty before God, then Paul is confused.
>>>We are to be justified by the righteousness of God, which is by faith in Jesus.”
Faith with the works of the law, or faith apart from the law? Which is your gospel?
Bill Ross
http://bibleshockers.blogspot.com
Guys! I have been watching the revival online… I haven’t been there…
All I would say is we pray and we test everything. Let’s not speak in sarcastic and condemning ways… we are brothers and sisters in Christ. Deceived or not. In all honesty after reading all these comments I’m just gonna pray for God to speak to me about it all. His sheep hear His voice.
I just know I’m hungry after God and I want Him to fill my hunger and keep me from diception. God bless you all and may He do the same for you whatever you might think of this outpouring. Jesus Rules!
Thinking a bit on these things today, I realized that we are being tempted to eat of the fruit of the wrong tree in all of our speculations regarding Todd, the shapes of his tatoos, etc. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil pulls so strongly on our pride/and/or, fear.
By Don’s “knowledge”–it all is decreed evil. By others the evil and the good are decreed a mixture.
But if we obey God and back away from that tree, and ask Him if there is any of His “tree” of life that He desires we eat of from this move,…I believe we will see from a different perspective.
As for me, when I saw teens stating the Lord had shown them they needed to forgive a sibling –non-believers and new unchurched believers saying they had to find a church to belong to,..backslidden folks earnestly returning to a renewed faith,…that is precious fruit!
As a new widow, my heart was blessed and hope renewed, not just from the miracles, but the depth of love and true fellowship there. I sat in the presence of the Lord in that arena and was convicted of sin,..not the big stuff, but the type that is generally not even really discerned until you are in the manifest presence of the Lord.
God bless all seeking hearts.
Thanks to everyone who has commented here while I have been away for a few days, especially to Roxanna who is being very sensible.
It’s amazing to me to see that the ones showing off their “spiritual knowledge” by quoting verses upon verses are the ones who convey hypocrisy, judgementalism and clear cut hate in their comments. Jesus teaches that we will know who are His by the love we have one for another. Love isn’t shown by how many Scriptures we can quote, but how those Scriptures change our hearts through the working of the Holy Spirit which in turn will cause us to love with the love of Christ. An unconditional love. May that revelation be with the whole body of Christ!
I have done a whole web page on it now:
http://www.4hurtingchristians.com/is_this_lakeland_florida_revival_with_todd_bentley_on_god_tv_genuine.html
I do admit it is difficult, the judge thing, but like I said on another blog, we are not judging a person as such, but what they are and do.
I’ve often made people question me down the years saying I hate me, I realized in the end actually what I meant was I don’t hate me, but hate what I am, what I do.
Did not St Paul, though we don’t have his commission and anointing I admit, most of us anyway and did not he say:
Galatians 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
WOW steady on Paul, you’ll be in trouble with God, talk about judging and being critical.
No it is nonsense and used cleverly, normally most by those trying to cover things up, or they actually sadly do believe in this.
It has opened my eyes to God TV.
I’m not being boastful I hope, but have always said I’m non-denominational and proud of it, I do my best to follow Yeshua and the Bible, not some name made my man.
If satan can not stop a thing, he infiltrates it and uses a man or more to corrupt it.
Like it or not one time we all came from the catholics, one universal church, but Luther and other saw things not quite right.
If we choose to start to look at a man or organization more than God Himself we then leave ourselves open to being misled, okay.
So far from all the research over the last many days that I have done and from watching it myself, and Todd Bentley getting worse and something starting to have a weird effect on me, and sometimes headaches I can tell you this much based on my personal experience of being attacked by demons:
http://www.4hurtingchristians.com/my_powerful_story.html
This does not add up and I’m about 90% sure now this is not of God, or certainly not all of Him.
Many are going there in good faith.
Watch Todd one minute, speaking sensible and no head shaking and wow, saying some serious and, yeah okay I can buy that, well done, then suddenly shaking head and Bam, bam, bam arghhhhhhhhhhhh, arghhhhhhhhhhhhh, blah blah blah, and I’m like, no, no way, this is not quite right.
Then the tattoo’s and the sort that they are, fact I understand he had these after so called conversion, being a Christian.
Then the angels stuff, like the recent one with this boy Josh, I saw, and so it goes on.
We have a duty to warn, if not, St Paul, keep your mouth shut and allow the churches in Galatia to get away from the truth mislead many to hell, after all we must not upset anyone or speak out, right.
If we see something that we are convinced in and of ourselves does not sit quite right with the Bible, we have surely a right to question that, make it known to others.
I’ll say it again, like I did else where, I’d rather be wrong, repenting, begging God for forgiveness, than say nothing and later say, oh dear I knew it and have those involved say, oh thanks, then why didn’t you say something, I would have listened and least looked into it and not gone there, thanks a lot.
So as you can see, I feel we do have a right to question, the argument thrown back about how dare you, ohhhh you’ll be sorry, in trouble with God, your not to judge and so on, is nonsense based on St Paul himself saying I marvel that you……
We judge what Todd does, and yes it is easy to become critical and start to attack the person, and harder to say God I pray for Todd, open his eyes now Lord, please……
But at the same time condemn that which they do, love the gay person, condemn the sin, else otherwise let him or her cast the first stone.
God bless, love Lee.
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Hey, I have tattoos and piercings, and ive been a christian since i was 7, i feel it helps my ministry, im going into the heavy meatal / goth scene, and preaching to the unreachable, and im seeing amazing things happen and loads of my friends coming to christ, my tattoos have all been thought about and prayed about before i get them done, and all of them have symbolic meaning which helps me chat about God.
I watch Todd every night on God TV on his revival at Lakeland. He is so good and i dont think people should judge Him. I believe him. I mean its clear in the Bible that in the last days we shall dream dreams, cast out demons and so forth. Besides we are expected to greater miracles than what Christ did during His time on earth.
I watch Bentley from Gaborone, Botswana in Southern Africa.
Shine
Lee, thanks for your comment. Sorry it was caught initially as spam, I don’t know why.
From the Charisma magazine article you quote:
Indeed. And I’m sorry to say that that means the last thing we need is a page like yours full of blasts like this. The Charisma article is good and balanced. The rest of your page is not.
Yes, there are some genuine concerns about hype. And if there is really too much emphasis on angels and on manifestations from Todd (rather than from heresy hunters linking to old video clips out of context), that is also a concern. But these concerns need to be addressed in a properly nuanced way, not with character assassinations and stories of people who presumed they were healed when they were not and then blame Todd.
Well, perhaps this just shows that the are not concerned about getting the secular press to hear about it but only about doing what God calls them to do.
As for your point that Paul the apostle criticised the Galatians and other churches for errors, he did so on the basis that he had proper apostolic authority over those churches. You don’t have any authority over Todd Bentley, I presume, so it is not for you to criticise. See Romans 14:4 and 1 Corinthians 4:3-5.
John and Shine, thank you for your helpful comments.
To Roxanna,
My only “knowledge” is the Word of God. You must be the one with other “knowledge” as so many pentecostals claim to have.
The devil will deceive you with something close. Your experience is ruling your mind. All the things you saw are easily faked and can be based in the emotionalism of the moment.
Someone may get saved, but God used even a jack-ass to correct someone’s life, but that person (Balaam) was never truly saved.
Paul rebuked the damsel who proclaimed that he and Silas were showing the way of truth in Acts 16. Her message may have been fine, but the Spirit rebuked her. She was wrong and evil for whatever she was doing, regardless if some of her hearers followed God.
Don’t let the little worm that the devil throws you deceive you, you will be caught by the hook. Satan appears as an angel of light and his ministers as ministers as ministers of righteousness.
Beware of the great deception and the strong delusion.
I will reply to Bill Ross offline so as not to fill up too much of this space at this persons site.
If anyone has done much research on past moves of God ,..such as with the Methodists and Quakers (who received this name from shaking under this same power), then Todd shaking his head in response to feeling God’s power in his mortal body,… the surge of the power of God to heal, would not cause anyone to wonder.
Are there really so many Christians arguing for non-response? That is the only way I can make sense of these attacks on Todd. Have there been miracles from non-response? I am sort of coining that phrase to depict a stance that we should be able to allow the power of the living God to flow through us to effect change on the earth,..without ever displaying any response to that power!
As to the angel question, Todd may infrequently acknowledge the helping role of the angelic,..which is biblical, but he clearly does not worship them, but Jesus.
And regarding the tattoos, one site I checked quoted a staunch critic of Todd’s refuting the supposed pentagram tattoo. He stated that it is actuslly a star of David. That is quite a difference.
Tattoos are not my preference, but I am not about to “judge another man’s servant” on this matter. My praying Grandma used to reference the distinction between sins of the flesh and sins of the spirit. This might be a helpful warning to those who seem to be rushing to commit the latter in effort to decry what they see as the former. The bible is clear regarding which category of sin should be avoided the more.
If any are truly discerning areas of need for prayer in Todd, I would urge you to spend some time in prayer and fasting for him until you know God’s heart for him, before you ‘warn’ others about him. It might not only prevent greater attack spiritually on Todd, but judgement for yourself. A word to the wise, I hope.
Thank you, Roxanna.
Don, if you claim “knowledge” from the Word of God, I suggest you read James 3:13-18 and consider where your wisdom might actually come from. Is it peacable, gentle and open to reason? If not, it may not be from the Word of God at all.
This is in response to Bill’s comment. I couldn’t figure out how to respond to him directly.
Bill,
Glad to have this opportunity to try to help you, and to learn something myself.
1) You stated, “As opposed to being free from the law itself? This is a false, unscriptural distinction.”
Bill, it is not unscriptural. Where does it say that a Christian is free from the law itself? (I assume you mean free from the law entirely.)
“For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.” Rom 10.4 The word for is there for a reason. That is clearly to put to silence the lawless who would pervert the true gospel and preach lawlessness. Paul addressed this issue when the Spirit wrote through him:
“What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” Rom 6.1
Other scriptures:
“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” Jud 1.4
“To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.” 1Cor 9.21
“Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.” Rev 14.12
Too many other scriptures indicate that we are still to walk, not for our justification before God, but out of love for who He is, and according to God’s manifested righteousness.
You seem to have a problem with the distinction between justification and sanctification. The blood of Christ has done both, but we walk not without law to God.
2) You stated, “No[r] was the blood of Jesus ever said to be an atonement that justifies.”
Again Bill you are wrong.
“Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.” Isa 53.12
“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” Mat 26.28
“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” Acts 20.28
“Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;” Rom 3
“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him…And not only [so], but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.” Rom 5.9,11
“In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;” Eph 1.7
“But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.” Eph 2.13
“In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:” Col 1.14
“And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.” Col 1.20
“How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?” Heb 9.14
“Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:” 1Ptr 1.18-19
“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” 1Jhn 1.7
“And from Jesus Christ, [who is] the faithful witness, [and] the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,” Rev 1.5
Finally, you asked of the gospel “Faith with the works of the law, or faith apart from the law? Which is your gospel?” My gospel (which is the Bible’s gospel) is summed up with the following:
“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.” Rom 3.28
“And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:” Phl 3.9
“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.” Gal 2.16
I could continue to address all of your errors, but I think this is enough to show that you do not know what Christianity is. You are reading and listening to liars who would turn you from the Jesus, the spotless lamb of God whose blood was shed for the sins of many. Repent and believe the gospel, put away your pride.
Don
Roxanna,
First, who cares about your praying Grandma, that is not any authority, though it sounds so so sweet. Therein lies much of your problem.
The most of the so-called moves of God in the past were counterfeits. The ones you sited were of free-willists, who by definition have a false gospel. Satan loves to deceive those who look for experience instead of believing the truth. You cannot see into hearts and cannot tell if someone is truly saved or not.
An evil and adulterous generation seeks signs.
There are no female angels. By the way the Bible says nothing of financial angels who can be sent around the world (as Todd believes) to get him money. Todd is deceived and blind and has a false gospel. He is covetous.
Read Ezk 14. God says He sometimes answers idolitors according to their idols. He will give them what they want.
Many have God on their lips but with a heart far from Him.
Many come with feigned words for coveteounness sake.
Many will say unto Jesus “did we not do many wonderful works…” but they are not known of God.
It is apparent that you, and Peter, trust walk by sight and not by faith. You are trusting in deceptive lies and experiences rather than the Word of God.
Repent and believe the gospel.
To Roxanna again,
You say pray and fast until I know God’s heart for him. Did Paul pray and fast until he knew God’s heart for the Jews who preached circumcision? He flatly condemned them and their false gospel in Gal 1.
Did Paul pray and fast until he knew God’s heart for the damsel in Acts 16?
I will never know God’s heart for someone, where do you get off thinking that anyone ever could?
We are to contend for the faith, warring in the Spirit against all false doctrine and false teachers. You can do what you like, but the Bible teaches to contend.
Don, if you claim “knowledge” from the Word of God, I suggest you read James 3:13-18 and consider where your wisdom might actually come from. Is it peacable, gentle and open to reason? If not, it may not be from the Word of God at all.
Peter,
I am open to reason from the Word of God. I know the passage well. But the Bible doesn’t teach that we are to let sin, evil, false doctrines, the wolves in sheep’s clothing to go around without contending.
The wisdom I speak is peaceable and gentle to the true sheep, but the wolves find it harsh. Like those in the OT, most want “smooth words” and “deceits” instead of truth.
I would ask you to read Luk 11 and see how gentle Jesus was with those who corrupted the Word of truth. He was outright harsh, and that to one who invited him to dinner.
Your concept of being gentle is lopsided and unbiblical. But that is no surprise in that I have found that you are an Anglican. The gospel of the Anglicans is a false one. There is no “three-legged stool.” Tradition and your reason will send you to hell. Believe only in Jesus Christ.
“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” 2Jhn 1.9
Anglicans do not abide in the doctrine of Christ. They, like the Pharisees, wander off into tradition and in their own wisdom.
Repent and believe the gospel. Believe the Bible, the Word of God.
And here I will stop preaching to all of you, and leave you to your own devices. I have preached the truth. I have warned you of your errors. Your blood is on your own heads.
Don, I am glad that you say “here I will stop preaching to all of you”, because I was about to ask you to do just this. Three of your last four comments have nothing to do with the subject of this post and have turned into personal attacks on the beliefs of me and other commenters. The other one is a personal attack on the character of Todd Bentley, who is not covetous – or at least I have seen no evidence of it. I will not allow this comment thread to degenerate into personal attacks. You have made your own position clear, and so you don’t need to write any more.
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I’m so sorry reading all these comments ‘against’ or ‘for’ the ‘revival’. It really hurts me and so many others I think. It makes satan happy to see christians fighting. It’s ok to say our oppinion, it’s ok to express our understanding from the scriptures but it’s not ok to attack one another.
I believe that most of what happens in Florida is genuine. However someone needs to confirm if Todd’s tatoos are actual satanic symbols. If this is accurate, we have to be very cautious. Let’s not forget that miracles, signs and wonders is not the confirmation that God aproves someone. Let’s not forget that Judas was performing miracles and casting out demons like the other Apostles.
Let’s not forget Matthew 7:22…
Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name…?
The fact is that genuine Christians are tired with the hypocricy of religion. Yes we need a Revival, Yes we need to see God moving and glorified. But at the end of the day, is heaven we all want to make.
Let’s pray for one another, let’s love one another, let’s forgive one another.
God bless you all
Nicholas
Thanks, Nicholas. Indeed we need to stop fighting one another. Meanwhile a lot of nonsense is written about satanic symbols. Perhaps if the same symbol is used by Satanists and by Christians (and Todd Bentley is indisputably the latter) we need to understand that the symbol is in itself neutral apart from the use made of it.
When’s the last time any of you witnessed to an actual unbeliever? You spend your time arguing with other christians and there’s no real love in what you’re saying. I think we should look at the fruit of Todd Bentley’s life -not his flesh. Many people have been raised from the dead, healed, and saved. So what if his tatoo’s are even demonic? Is that sin too great for Jesus? Even if he did get the tattoo’s after he got saved. People still sin after they get saved- they’re just not sinners anymore. If all of your sins were written in your flesh you’d be catching crap too- but only if you were trying to minister God’s Word. I feel sorry for those of you that are quoting the law and demanding we all keep it. Because for those who live by it and are trying to hold others to it- remember that if you offend in one part all is broken. Yes, adultery is still wrong- but the law contains every rule and you that are pointing out sins are condemning yourselves. I understand that people are afraid that Todd Bentley is preaching false doctrine or leading people astray- but that last time I checked no body said anything about what he is preaching – only about his tattoos. “Woe to you also you lawyers! For you load men with burdens grievous be borne, and you yourselves’ touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.” “Woe to you, lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge: you enter not in yourselves, and them that were entering in you hindered.” Luke 11:46,52 Stop slandering those who are actually doing the work of the Kingdom. Why don’t you ask yourself why you (with your spotless doctrine) are not also seeing the dead raised, unbelievers saved, the sick healed and other signs and wonders. Because according to Jesus Himself (the One Who fulfilled ALL the law and Stood in our place) “Believe Me that I AM in the Father, and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the very works sake. Truly, Truly I say to you that he who believes on Me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do, because I go to My Father.”John 14:11,12 Jesus was also accused of having a demon and being a false prophet. So by what power is Todd Bentley doing all these things? satan’s not in the buisness of casting himself out and doing anything but stealing, killing and destroying. So let’s all get on with the Great Commission and start preaching in love and compassion and with the Power of the Holy Spirit to those unbelievers around us. Be Blessed Everyone, and I’m thinking I need to spend more time praying and worshiping God than surfing the Net.
I am so grateful for these online Blogs.. people get HOT, Emotional and on FIRE!! Fire Fire Fire!!! God is working mightily. as the Bible says, Iron sharpens Iron!!!.. This outpouring is a Division between light and darkness, hot and cold, the born again and the unsaved, the religious and the true believers. The Prophesy is NOW being fulfilled, Jesus said in Matthew 10: 34-37 “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me”
Todd is a man. God uses men. God uses anyone he chooses. Usually God chooses the lowest of men, unlearned, unordained, to humble the proud, to confuse the wise, to judge the rulers. Jesus said the greatest born of women was John the Baptist – most people today would not invite him into their homes because he looked wild, preached wild, lived wild!!! contrary to comfortable outward pious proud Religious lifestyle.
I agree that there can appear to be much hype and fleshly activity going on.. but many critics fail to acknowledge that the Bible says to come into God’s presence with Joy, thanksgiving and Praise, we are told to wake up our souls and that is a process (call it hype if you like – hype yourself up – seek God with all your heart soul and mind!!). There is also an ignorance to acknowledge that regardless of who the preacher is, whether his intention is fraudulent or not, that when the Word of God in the name of Jesus (from the Bible) is preached, God cannot deny Himself and is faithful to His Word, and therefore regards the hearers of the Word: “if anyone” believes in their heart, without doubt in the Word of God, they will be granted according to their FAITH”. we are called to walk by faith from beginning to end, but Faith without works is dead therefore it is practical and true to expect an outworking of faith, ie miracle. It is not about who the preacher is but what he says the Word of God says, and when these are in alignment, POWER is released!!!
Todd Bentley feeds the poor, looks after the homeless, visits those in prison, helps the widow and orphan (which the Bible says is True Religion) – can any critics claim the same?.(let alone true believers) . No money, not one cent from the revival goes any where near Todd’s personal finances. I would fear God and not Judge lest though be found to be judging Gods Servant. I challenge any critic to listen to Todd’s teachings and sermons >> refer Media Files >>
http://www.freshfire.ca/
I too started out dubious and have since found repentance – as Todd clearly states, it is only HIM Jesus Christ, risen from the dead that we should seek, not man.
Spiritual things are discerned by spiritual people and as in Jesus day so it is today, the light shines in a dark place but men perceived it not for their ears are dulled and their eyes dimmed, lest they should hear and see and believe and be saved. The greatest Prophets in the Bible were the ones most persecuted and commonly killed by the masses, even the Lord Our Saviour came to His own, but they received Him not..
I thank you Father God for using Todd Bentley, I forgive the critics and pray that you give them understanding, wisdom and patience to hear the full story, rather than pieces of Your mysterious work in using such a humble man as Todd Bentley. I believe you Jesus Christ are the one and only true way to God and that there is salvation in NO other name under heaven. The name of Jesus Christ. AMEN & AMEN.
please feel free to email me here: pravdaruski@gmail.com
Let me first of all say that I have attended pentecostal type churches for the past 35 plus years.
I have to say I have not quite made up my mind on whether this so-called revival is of God. My jury is out for it’s deliberation but from what I’ve researched (on the net, talking to those who have attended meetings, and scripture) it sure does not look good for Todd.
I tend to agree with Don more than anyone else. He is seeking the “whole counsel of God” (both old and new testaments). Others here seem to say God has done away with his old testament WORD and I think that is error. Anyway getting back to Todd, I have asked many in favour of this revival why Todd is not using the name of the female angel EMMA anymore. In fact all references to EMMA have been removed from his website. Also I understand the pastor of Ignited Church has asked that EMMA not be used because he is uncomfortable with it. If EMMA is truly an angel sent to Todd from Jesus, then why has he all of a sudden not using the name? If it was me I would be shouting it from the rooftops!!! Is Todd trying to hide something? Is he ashamed of the angel that Jesus sent him. Isn’t that like saying he’s ashamed of Jesus? No one has been able to answer these questions!! Actions speak louder than words people! So does anyone here have an answer to these questions? That is one of my concerns regarding whether this is a true move of God and why my “jury” is still out deliberating.
My second concern is that of Todd’s associations with the so-called prophets on the Elijah list and others who are big supporters. I will not get into too many details, but suffice to say that Pastor Haggard and Paul Cain, both admitted homosexuals, are connected strongly to the Elijah list prophets. My question is why the self proclaimed prophets did not have discernment of these two individuals? If they were “true” prophets I think they would have had that discernment. I ask the question: is there a deceptive spirit involved here?
I will not comment too much on Todd’s tattoos since many accusations have been made and when I researched them they were totally false. The concern in this area for me is why so many of these tattoos borderline occultic?
One last comment. I am proceeding with much caution here because a few warning flags are still up as far as I am concerned. There is much wisdom in the old expression – better to be safe than sorry!!!
Ray, please see my answer to more or less the same comments here.
Peter: I have viewed those comments and here is my response also posted under “EMMA”
Peter: Thank you for commenting on my post however I am sorry to say, that Todd does not address my question regarding EMMA. My question was why does he not mention EMMA’s name anymore? That question is not answered by Todd. Last week I checked his website and the article regarding EMMA was still there however it was “doctored” from it’s original state, ie, EMMA’s name was removed but the story concerning her was still there!! Now I see he has removed “many” of the pages concerning Angelic Hosts however the “doctored” article concerning EMMA remains. He says that he has removed these pages because too much credit is being given to the devil. This to me is a very lame excuse because these originals can be found on the net for anyone wanting to spend the time to search for them (the truth cannot be hidden in this day and age). But for those that only visit his site these articles are completely gone. This is misleading to me.
Also you did not address my second question regarding associations. I would really appreciate your or anyone else’s thoughts on these two questions.
PS: At present I am reading a book concerning a true story of deceptive angels that ever so slowly deceived long time Jesus loving christians to commit crimes. Small petty crimes at first but then led to the horrible crime of murder. No drugs were involved. There is too much to tell here but the story is an example of how a group of well intentioned christians can be so deceived. The only reason I mention this story is to caution people when dealing with angelic spirits – they are very very deceptive coming disguised as an angel of light. By coincidence this took place in the area of Grants Pass Oregon where Todd was visited by an angel. Coincidence? Maybe.
Thanks, Ray. But there is no need to post multiple copies of comments. I have answered on the other thread, which is more relevant.
Obeying the old testament law is a point of theology I have struggled with, but I believe it is summed up pretty good here:
19″It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. Acts 15:19-20
The whole of Acts 15 does a better job.
This is Paul’s response to the Jews who tried to impose circumcision on the Gentile believers.
And let’s not forget his past, CHRISTIAN KILLER.
Thanks, Mark. This looks like a misplaced reply to this comment, was that what you intended? I note no mention of tattoos in Acts 15, or anywhere in the New Testament, if I am not to enrage Charismatic by suggesting that the wording in Revelation 19:16 is a tattoo.
I feel so very sorry for those of you who are so quick to judge. If God is getting the glory what does it matter, it is not for us to judge Todd that is God’s job. What if Todd is acting in the will of God then those of you who are judging him will have to answer to God for ur accusations. I have been to Lakeland revival and i assure you the presence of god is in those meetings. Btw did u see all of Todds tattoos how do we know he didnt have the more satanic tattoos b4 he got saved?
THANK S BE TO GOD THERE ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS THAT ARE GIVEN THE GIFT OF DECERNMENT. DON HAD THE BEST COMMENT THAT LINED UP WITH THE WORD OF GOD. WE CANNOT LET SATAN DECIEVE US.
Pam, I too am thankful that there are Christians who have the spiritual gift of discernment, but I don’t think that Don is one of them.
I have written quite a lot more about Todd’s tattoos in a new comment here, with links to pictures which confirm these words even of a critic:
Meanwhile I note that Todd has now allowed his hair to grow back somewhat, showing that he is not bald, but his hair is receding and there is also a bald spot on top.
Peter Kirk: You will not be enraging me but merely be enraging God and blaspheming His name if u had even dared to suggest that Jesus has a tattoo.
I had initially wanted to stop commenting on your blogs but noticed my name being mentioned in this one,so i had to reply of course.
In conclusion, there is way too much emphasis on this Todd fella and way too much compromising excuses made by Todd-fans and Todd-die hards to justify why some of the things this Todd guy does is correct.
Whats more of interest rather than his tats is at least one of the hospitals (Lakeland Regional or Arnold Palmer)refuting the bringing back from the dead of one of its patients claimed by Mr Bentley . Of course the arguement would be the Hospital is scared stiff of a lawsuit for certifying someone dead when in fact they were not
Absolutely, Fish. The hospital’s brief denial begs more questions than it answers. But they have to be very careful in a case like this.
It’s amazing how much this has divided the Christian community, but not suprising as many christians really don’t beleive that God can move in this way. They let the reality of this world shape their faith rather than their faith in God shape the reality of this world. All I can say to those who knock the guy would you go and try to pray for lepers, actually embracing them? When Jesus came he was critised and ultimatley crucified for healing and not following the conventions of the pharisees and saducees. 2000 years later, people like to put their own spin on the gospel of life that would lead to bondage and religion once more. Jesus uses weak fragile Jars of Clay, and if the glory goes to the Lord, then who cares if the guy’s mortal body has the odd tatto? I expect one or two of you to ream out loads of scripture trying to “enlighten” me out of what you call deceit, sorry guys but I wont get into a table biblical tennis match, and I wont even be back to read it anyway. My Jesus, heals and he uses the foolish to confound the wise. If it was of satan, the glory wouldn’t go to Jesus. I hope that those who put limits on God or look and make judgements on those who are seeking to make God’s kingdom a reality will never have the need for that divine healing touch, although God is graceful to us all. And by the way I’m bald as well, and I don’t think it’s an issue for healing. Pouler legend says paul the apostle was as well.
Thanks, Paul.
Strange. The Tanach (“Old” Covenant) says that Gentiles are to live under the same Torah (law) as Ancient Israel. The Bri’t Hadashah (“new” covenant) says gentiles are GRAFTED IN to Israel. It also says that Messiah Yeshua is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. Messiah Yeshua also said He will reject those who disobey G-d (Matthew 7: 21-23)
So from what the bible says, Christians are not to get tattoos.
Luke 7:22 is about Messiah Yeshua and are the signs that Yeshua is the Messiah. It has NOTHING to do with those who claim to be prophets or teachers.
It appears that people should read their bibles for themselves and ask G-d to reveal HIS Truth to them — that way they will not be deceived by demon possessed false prophets like todd bentley.
False Prophet Watch:
falseprophetwatch.blogspot.com
Anonymous, I think you should read your Tanach more carefully, as well as your New Testament. As modern Jews recognise, the laws of the Torah were originally intended only for the people of Israel, not to the Gentiles on whom only the Noachide Laws or Seven Laws of Noah were considered binding.
These laws do not mention tattoos.
That is Heresy.
The only laws which are fulfilled are those relating to the sacrificial system and laws relating to the temple, priests, etc. All of the 10 commandments and many other laws have nothing to do with the sacrificial system and are valid today and were valid for all Jews and Gentiles (who converted in ot times).
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from BLOOD, and from things STRANGLED , and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (direct references to some of the Mosaic unclean food laws which in the the New Testament it says it was GOOD to the Holy Ghost for the gentiles to obey)
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we ESTABLISH the law.
Yet there is always a verse here and there to misinterpret for any heretic to cling on to as they have always done since the time of Jesus and the apostles themselves. This will never change either until the True Christ returns and rules with a rod of iron.
The Jews were not to rule the world, they were just to rule themselves and those gentiles who converted to join them. Gentile Christians now are converts as well, yet under the new covenant where the sacrificial system is over where offerings and laws related to the sacrificial system are no longer needed.
The sacrifical system began with Abel, a gentile, not with Moses. Most people have no clue about that either. Abraham gave tithes even. Many laws of God were known and obeyed before the 10 commandments even came as a reminder through Moses. “Remember the Sabbath day”. (Yes it was known before the time of Moses, just like many other laws of God)
Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
They are not the basis of salvation, but they are still valid for Christians as well, to obey and please God, and to have more eternal rewards.
Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these LEAST commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
So people who teach tattoos are fine are breaking one of the commandments, even though that laws is one of the least commandments. They still may be saved if they trust in the True Christ to save them by grace, but they will not be rewarded for their teaching others against the commands of God in terms of their rewards.
Teaching damnable heresy I think puts you clearly in a different category then teaching tatoos is ok though. A certain type of heretic will certainly be accursed if he does not repent as teaching heresy is different then teaching against one of the least commandments.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind
Jam 2:25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent [them] out another way?
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
1Cr 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
1Pe 1:16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning [here] in fear:
Max, I don’t want to argue this matter with you here, so I will just say that I consider you to be profoundly mistaken about the nature of the Christian gospel. See Galatians 3:10.
@ 59943
And many would say you are judging many people who you consider false prophets but may truly be men of Jesus Christ. Who are you to judge who is of Christ and who isn’t?
i had a big debate with my mother about this last week as shes very anti-todd, i told her the same as what other people have told her, if gods using him his ministry then he should be ‘left to it’ so to say.
at the end of the day no ones perfect and every one sins now and again after giving their life to the lord yet the lord still forgives us.
i had the same debate about the leviticus verse too, i said yes i know the OT tells us that but it also tells you to sacrifice animals to god and we dont feel the need to do that anymore, i hope i make sense in my comparison.
i actually couldnt turn the revival of the other night for ure curiosity and was rather amazed at th healings and began to think it probably is gods work.
then i typed in todd bentleys name tonight and came across a youtube video of one of the healing meetings, called ‘todd bentleys raging revival’….its really got me thinking now as im in no position to judge but i just cant remember anywhere in the bible where jesus ‘beat’ demons out of people who had cancer? im not saying im for or against his ministry im just saying in on the fence for now.
at the end of the day we could go on forever on here but theres only one judge whos decision matters and thats the big guy upstairs…God:-)
Thanks, Sceptical. I think it is important to see the man and his ministry in its full context, not from video clips taken out of context. At least that way we get to understand why he is doing what he is. Personally I’m sure this is always because he genuinely believes he is doing God’s will – although I would accept that, like anyone else, he doesn’t always get that right.
Tim, I deleted your comment as simply abusive.
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Regarding:
Comment by Max
Saturday 2 August, 2008 @ 9:39 pm
_______________________________________
Peter, comments like Max are also what we put on the shelf until God quickens us to His Written Word which IS the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. The Gospel that you have to come with your ~whole heart~.
~connie
Connie.l.lewis@verizon.net
Connie, thank you for your comment. I’m sorry, but I consider that it is Max, not myself, who is preaching “another gospel” (Galatians 1:8), one of relying on the law as rejected by Paul in Galatians 3:10. But I don’t want to discuss this issue further here.
Rick,
Could your zeal for what you know blind you from others in God’s Body including Max – for Max is not speaking about having to be circumcised. Ask God to quicken the Scriptures he wrote and you will see that even the Scripture you wrote (Gal. 3:10) is not contradicting each other, for they were both written by Paul the Apostle?
Satan, wants our head knowledge of God’s Word to divide us. And when we walk in Pride it will. God’s Word brings us together, it doesn’t seperate us. It will separate the world from us but not each other. Max is not your enemy – he’s telling you the truth. He’s not asking you or any other man to have their skin cut from. He is not relying on skins being cut. He is speaking of the Law which is Spiritual, not physical. Now you can see he’s not speaking another gospel, he’s not speaking about cut skin. The Scriptures Max is speaking to you is Spirit and Life, not skin. I hope God will show you this in time.
Blessings – 1 Cor 12,
Connie
hope1115@hotmail.com
By MAX:
Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from BLOOD, and from things STRANGLED , and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (direct references to some of the Mosaic unclean food laws which in the the New Testament it says it was GOOD to the Holy Ghost for the gentiles to obey)
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Amen Max – when we resisting the things of God we are not resisting men but God and His Holy Ghost. It’s comes down to what you said Max, we are either obeying God or we are disobeying God to our own destruction as you also mentioned that verse.
God bless you Max may the Lord keep you and Sanctify you into every good work.
Connie (1 Cor 12)
Max,
I do have a question for you though just to make sure,……are you of the Restoration Teaching what once and still is called Kingdom Now theology?
Just making sure. Because it’s not of God but of Pride and Deceit. My Pastor, the late Milton Green so preached against even looking for the latter rain (Biblically speaking that is) because at that time over 20 years ago and now the church for the most part was and still is full of the sensual and very earthly – to say the least.
Blessings to you Max and all here.
Connie
Correction: hope1115jesus@hotmail.com
haha funny Christians. leviticus? lol. im crying here. leviticus 19:28 says no tats. ok, fine. read leviticus 19:27, the verse right before. men cannot cut hair or shave their beard. and we r saved by grace, not how clean our skin is. and if a tat is done FOR God, i highly doubt He wil send u 2 hell 4 it. tattoos are a great witness to the people who never recieve the gospel because Christians r afraid 2 reach 4 them!!!! the people that r against it r the people who r afraid 2 reach out 2 the untouchables, as we refer to them. all these comments back and forth r not edifying once it comes down 2 arguements, and God hates confusion and “i know more than u cuz i dont have tattoos”. and God is the same yesterday today and 4ever!!! he still does miracles. not as often cuz the lack of faith we christians are pumping in2 kids’ minds. jesus did few miracles n his home town because lack of faith. if u dont believe God is able, then u lack in faith. make sure u r saved if its you and ur flesh is getting touchy as u read this. many people will say “lord i am a Christian!!” God will say “depart from Me you worker of iniquity. I never knew you”. ouch. love yall. be encouraging, ye ol’ Christians!
Thanks, John Paul. In principle I agree with you, although I let others be this kind of witness in practice.
Thanks Roxanna for all your comments! Don how do you have so much time to respond to things like this so in depth? Wow!
Don, Blood letting the same as tattoos? Are you kidding me? Do you know what blood letting is? Totally different MOTIVES than getting a tattoo. Anyone care to read this? Don and everyone else check this out… at least read it through before judging it. Let God be true and every man be a lie.
http://www.sacredink.net/tattoo_and_the_bible/
… For the Lord searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. He cares more about our motives because in essence that is who we are right? Why do we do what we do and is what we do right in Gods sight… we are to become like Christ.
What is the motive of getting a tattoo verses a demon possessed man cutting himself? Totally different! Check out that link and consider some of what is posted.
AS for Todd, it baffles me why he got tattoos AFTER being in ministry. Thats not saying its wrong or right… but it doesn’t make human sense to me. Todds older videos are amazing. God really did alotttt of ministry through him. The Lakeland Revival was very different from anything Ive ever seen just because of how unorthodox Todd looked. But doesn’t God love to do that? I dont have time to write and article and get a bunch of scripture references sorry. Nice discussion though!
Given, thanks for your comment. I agree in not understanding why Todd got all those tattoos but also not condemning it. I doubt if he understands why I do all this blogging (or used to, much less at the moment), but that doesn’t make it wrong.
Hi Peter and others on this thread
I know this is a very old thread, but I recently saw a clip of Todd Bentley’s video where he ‘repented for offending the supernatural’ – and it just sparked this matter off again in my mind.
Without quoting scriptures, I just want to encourage all Christians to examine the signs and not discount ‘common sense’ – God gave it to us for a reason.
Jesus Christ is the image of the invisible God and what can be known of God can be seen in nature so that man is without excuse.
Examine your hearts and pray: is what is known about Todd Bentley glorifying to God or bringing His name into reproach?
The healings, the salvations, the miracles? The proof of these have not been forthcoming, and we know that God reacts to our FAITH – which He gives to us – and so regardless of who received healing or salvation – it is not a man that saves, it is not a man that heals, but Christ alone through the Holy Spirit and God the Father.
It is God who works miracles through us, we have no power to do these things, but many will work miracles and think they have done it through God, and sadly, find out that they were deceived and it was not of God at all. ‘Depart from Me, I never knew you’, will be spoken to people who did great signs and wonders, but were deceived about where the power came from.
The bible says that Satan is a great deceiver, do you not believe the bible to be true? Be warned! Look out for what doesn’t ‘sit right’ and be on your guard for Satan trying to lead God’s children astray.
That really is all I have to say. God is Spirit and he says we must be discerning of spirits, not all spirits are good. And He says it for very good reason. Too many Christians are too easily led as lambs to the slaughter, following the other sheep of the fold without double-checking who the shepherd really is and where he is leading them.
The bible warns us – let us take heed. I pray that the eyes of your heart will be enlightened and that you will be known by God and know Him as He is truly to be known – that you may receive eternal life. Amen.
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I put together days of research on Bentley’s tattoos, and the hidden symbols and meaning in them.While I probably did not find everything, I did find a lot:
http://manfrommodesto.hubpages.com/hub/Todd-Bentleys-Tattoos
After putting together this article, and a few on Bill Johnson, I now wonder: “Are these NAR leaders actually Satanists, who know who they are and what they are doing?” It is more difficult to accept they believe they are doing God’s work than it is to see them as covert Satanists, intentionally leading the sheep into witchcraft and eastern mysticism.
The hidden Satanism and New Age nature of the tattoos really supports the more difficult conclusion.
Man from Modesto, I approved your comment, but that by no means implies that I agree with the content of the post you linked to. Among a number of things you have missed is the clear evidence I presented that the “Japanese” tattoo is in fact in Chinese, not Japanese, and is the ordinary Chinese way of writing “King David”, as used in the Chinese Union Bible. Indeed you give your own evidence that the tattoo is not Japanese when you quote an expert in the language as saying that it is not a correctly drawn Japanese character.
In a comment on your post you write “Read the Bible instead of Wikipedia.” Well, can I suggest that if you want to understand something in Chinese you read the Bible in Chinese instead of relying on what “experts” in Japanese write on websites which lack even the limited editorial control of WIkipedia.
Peter,
I appreciate the post. I have modified my post to mention the claim that Bentley’s tattoo matches the Chinese Union Bible version of “King David.” That Bible has two versions. Neither show the middle, 17-stroke kanji inked under Bentley’s skin. I also used two other sites, including Google Translate. They all give a different kanji, and are consistent with each other.
Whoever told you the Chinese Union Bible matches Bentley’s tattoo was passing on either a misconception or a deception. I hope you will check this information personally, and then cease to support what you have not verified. Be Berean, verify.
Peace.
Man from Modesto, no one told me “the Chinese Union Bible matches Bentley’s tattoo”. I discovered this for myself, as you will see if you read my post Todd Bentley’s Chinese tattoo means “King David”. The character of which I show an authoritative image, Unicode 885E, is clearly a close match to Todd’s tattoo. Whether the tattooist has reproduced it perfectly I don’t know, as I am not an expert in Chinese calligraphy. But this is clearly the same Unicode character used in the online edition of the Chinese Union Version, as well as in the Babelfish rendering, as quoted in that other post.
Google Translate renders “King David”, into traditional Chinese, as 大衛王. As far as I can tell those are the same three characters as the Chinese Union Version rendering. But you claim that “I also used two other sites, including Google Translate. They all give a different kanji, and are consistent with each other.”, please can you clarify what phrase you were trying to translate from what language to what other. Of course if you were trying to translate into Japanese you would get a different result as Japanese is a different language!
I hope you will check this information personally, and then cease to support what you have not verified. Be Berean, verify.
God uses some funny people! Some religious people who tick all the right boxes in their background etc are not that anointed whilst some are a little off but so open to the Holy Spirit and used mightily of God. When you see the Holy Spirit fall on Catholics it will open your eyes – why them? Ain’t they your enemy? Keep an open mind.
Funny people indeed! But I know the Holy Spirit falls on Catholics, who are by no means my enemy. I also know that some of those Catholics are then forced to leave their church if they want to continue as charismatics, but that is another matter.
Hi Peter, I do find a fellowship with fellow charismatics from various backgrounds and denominations and the Holy Spirit break down our differences and unites us in Him. Hope your well. God bless