Category Archives: Todd Bentley

Why does Todd Bentley inspire such hatred?

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Why does every mention of Todd Bentley, on this and other blogs, inspire such hatred? Why are there always some professing Christians who respond with such vituperative language? For example, early today I received here the following comment, which I did not approve:

Peter Kirk – You can rot in hell where you belong for being exactly what you are a self righteous hypocrite who supports liars, adulterers, thieves, deceivers such as Todd Bentley and friends

And that was all because I had asked that commenter to provide evidence to back up allegations made in a previous comment which I did not approve. While I accept that Todd has done wrong, I am not endorsing listing him among “liars, adulterers, thieves, deceivers”.

And then I found this from another commenter on another blog:

Todd Bentley is a FRAUD
Todd Bentley has committed FRAUD

What will you try to convince people of next Mr. Kirk?
That the holocaust never happened?

Again this was prompted by a request for evidence in my previous comment:

I “question the fact [your word] that Todd Bentley has committed fraud” because I have seen not one jot of evidence to suggest this. I would remind you of the biblical commands not to make accusations without two or three witnesses, and not to spread malicious gossip.

The commenter still did not provide a jot of evidence of the alleged financial fraud. Neither he nor I may appreciate Todd’s fundraising techniques, but that does not make them fraudulent. There doesn’t seem to be anything illegal in the arrangements reported by Rick Hiebert, suggested elsewhere as indicating fraud. So in the absence of any evidence to the contrary we must assume Todd’s financial affairs to be legal. But presumably in this absence of evidence the commenter thought he could prove his point by SHOUTING and associating me with holocaust deniers (see Godwin’s Law).

And these two are just a small selection of what has been directed at me personally, not to mention what has been directed at Todd, his friend, and anyone who has been seen as lukewarm in condemning his sins – not just the admitted ones but the ones alleged with no evidence.

Perhaps the explanation is in this comment from Will:

Ok.
Things are getting a but demonic here,
first off we are not to attack one another this is not lifting Jesus,

Secondly you shall not receive a rebuke against an elder unless it be in the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses.this is not in an email form but personally. …

Indeed, Will, and thanks for supporting me. I’m sure the demons are having a field day with discussions like this, laughing aloud as they watch Christians tearing one another down and apart. These are the same ones who rejoiced in their victory of ending God’s work in the Lakeland revival, by the ancient means of sexual temptation. Now they want to destroy the fruit which came from it (people are still publishing testimonies of healing at Lakeland, such as this one from a rock star who was healed: “oddly enough, ever since I went to the dude Todd Bentley that everyone is saying is a healer; my back has been feeling better”). And they want to destroy any possibility of Todd repenting and being restored to ministry. So these demons stir up hatred within Christians, or within those who call themselves Christians but are actually in their control, and incite them to, among other things, write hate-filled blog posts and comments.

The biblical authors Peter and James tell us to resist the devil who seeks to devour us, and he will flee from us (James 4:7, 1 Peter 5:8-9). On this basis I have been responding to many of the negative comments about Todd with positive truth. But Paul teaches us not to give the devil a foothold in our lives (Ephesians 4:27). So I will not allow on this blog comments filled with hate, or with unsubstantiated allegations, against Todd or against anyone else including myself. Please don’t waste your time trying to post them. I will also no longer respond to such posts and comments on other blogs, unless I decide that it is important to do so in a particular case.

I pray that those who are commenting negatively about Todd will be filled anew with God’s love and compassion even for those who have fallen into sin, and will start to write and speak only positively and in accordance with God’s love.

And I pray that Todd will turn away from his inappropriate relationship, repent of all his sins, and seek reconciliation with his wife and children – and that Shonnah will be filled with love and forgiveness as they try to work this out together. I look forward to the day when Todd will be restored to a ministry which will be even more powerful than we have seen at Lakeland.

PS The Official Todd Bentley Facebook Fan Page, which I linked to here and here, seems to have disappeared from Facebook. I wonder if this is a temporary glitch, or if the administrators decided that it was too much work keeping this free of the same kinds of negative comments which I am discussing in this post. There is still an unofficial fan page, which is attracting some negative comments but is probably not being read by Todd, and his Myspace page is still available. There is no sign yet of the promised new joint statement by Todd and Rick Joyner.

A new note about Todd Bentley

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The keepers of  The Official Todd Bentley Facebook Fan Page have posted a new note which is in fact an article from Charisma magazine, Todd Bentley Enters Restoration Process by Paul Steven Ghiringhelli. (Thanks to End Times Prophetic Words for the link, but I do not endorse the commentary on the article given there.)

There is also a new wall post at the fan page, written by its administrator, as follows:

Hello fans! This fan page was set up for those to love and encourage Todd during his time of rest and restoration. Todd Bentley does frequently check this page and leaves personal comments at his leisure. Please leave tasteful comments that express your love and encouragement. Please do not leave comments that will be interpreted as insensitive or to purposely offend Todd Bentley. We understand that there are a lot of people who are hurt, confused, and offended. There is a process behind the scene that the public is not aware of and we ask for your patience as we all wait for Todd to be restored. He will also be releasing a statement on his behalf with Rick Joyner shortly, that will explain his heart and his actions. Please understand that this is not the page for you to unleash your frustration but your love for Todd. So let’s please be respectful and enjoy this fan page.

Thank you for becoming a fan and God bless you.

This was posted after the Charisma magazine article, and so the “statement on his behalf with Rick Joyner” to be issued shortly is something different. Note also that

There is a process behind the scene that the public is not aware of…

The Charisma article, dated December 2008 but apparently written in October, includes a number of interesting points:

Todd Bentley … was planning to move to the campus of MorningStar Ministries in Fort Mill, S.C., in late October in search of healing and restoration.

Interestingly, the now deleted comments on this blog quoted at End Times Prophetic Words, in the name of Robert Ricciardelli, were posted in September from an IP address located in this same small town of Fort Mill, SC. Were they perhaps from someone with inside information at the MorningStar campus? Fort Mill is very near to Charlotte, NC, where Ricciardelli has his base.

In the current case, Joyner said Bentley does not believe his marriage to Shonnah is salvageable. “[Bentley] has also taken steps to make the relationship with the girl that was inappropriate, appropriate,” Joyner said.

He explained that both Bentley and the unidentified woman have expressed “deep remorse” over the situation, knowing they were “two wounded people who fell into a trap.” Joyner said Bentley acknowledged that even if his marriage were to fail, his timing for beginning a new relationship was “terrible.”

Joyner said that though it is tempting to judge, observers must remember that all parties involved are struggling to do what’s right. “A divorce is one of the most traumatic things you can go through,” Joyner said. “For a while, Todd had spun down into some pretty deep hopelessness.”

Ahn echoed Joyner’s sentiments. “Our goal is to restore Todd to his relationship with Jesus,” he said. “His restoration as an evangelist is secondary. …”

There is not really any new information here, except perhaps for the claim that Todd has made the relationship with the girl “appropriate”. It is hard to know what exactly this means. But we mustn’t forget that it takes two to salvage a marriage. There are all sorts of reasons why it will be very hard for Shonnah to take Todd back at this stage.

All the bloggers out there who are showing a seriously unforgiving attitude to Todd need a reminder that in insisting that the marriage be restored they are effectively requiring Shonnah to forgive Todd and forget what he has done. Would they be prepared to do that if their spouses were involved in the kinds of relationship which they claim Todd is involved in? If she has made the decision, quite reasonable in the circumstances, to start a new life apart from Todd, there is nothing that Todd can do about it except go through with the divorce.

We need all the more to pray for Todd and Shonnah.

Apologies to Robert Ricciardelli: it wasn't him gossipping about Todd Bentley

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I wish to apologise to Robert Ricciardelli of Vision Advancement Strategies, a member of the International Coalition of Apostles led by Peter Wagner, for accusations I have made against him on this blog, and in comments elsewhere.

Certain comments were made on this blog in September 2008 in Robert’s name which purported to reveal private information about Todd Bentley and the woman with whom he has admitted an inappropriate relationship. Some of these comments have recently been picked up and quoted by another blogger, and linked to elsewhere including here.

Both in September and again in comments on the recent posts, I accused Robert of spreading gossip about Todd. But now Robert (in comment 84 here) has denied making the comments in his name in September, and has reported that someone else has been making inappropriate comments in his name.

It is clear that the imposter posting in Robert’s name is sinning by doing so, bearing false witness in putting Robert’s name on his comments even if the reports are true, as well as spreading unverifiable private information, i.e. gossip, presumably with malicious intent against both Todd and Robert.

It also now seems clear that the genuine Robert Ricciardelli is not spreading gossip. So I now apologise to him and to anyone else reading this for suggesting that he might be, and withdraw any comments to that effect.

I have deleted from my blog the comments apparently made by the imposter and my responses to them. This refers to comments on this post, also some on this more recent one. Since my post “Thoughts on Todd Bentley, healing, and the dead being raised” (dated 20th September 2008) was primarily a response to the comments on an earlier post in Robert Ricciardelli’s name, and several other comments were made in his name on this post, I have deleted the post and all its comments.

I don’t know if the information in the deleted comments is true or false. I do know that it is personal information about two people who are not currently in public ministry, and that it has been reported by someone who has been proved a false witness for misrepresenting their own identity. I would therefore urge bloggers, indeed all Christians, to avoid repeating or giving any credence to this information. The name of Todd’s lady friend has I think never been revealed by any reliable source. And in the absence of any verifiable evidence to the contrary everyone should accept Todd’s own statement that the inappropriate relationship between him and her started in July 2008.

Todd Bentley on Facebook too

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Two days ago I reported the news that Todd Bentley apparently has a new Myspace page together with a blog. Now Agathos aka Scott has discovered that Todd also has a new, as of 16th December 2008, Facebook page, The Official Todd Bentley Facebook Fan Page. (I’m not sure if you need to be a Facebook member to view this.) Again there is no proof or confirmation that this is genuinely from Todd.

Todd has already acquired 361 fans (none as far as I can see called Jessa). On the site there are five “notes” apparently by Todd, all dated 16th December, including the announcement of a new book Kingdom Rising, which is being sold, and promoted on their home page, by Todd’s company Sound of Fire. Two of the other “notes” are explicitly older writings by Todd. They are not the same material as on the Myspace blog.

Todd has also contributed to this discussion linked to the fan page. Again I can’t be sure that this is the real Todd, but he does have 4735 friends (again no Jessa). He writes

Hi friends tell me your testimonies from Lakeland outpouring love and blessings

and

wow i love reading your testimonies please keep them coming.

But the longest post in Todd’s name in this discussion is in fact not by him but the story of “One of The Fan Page Admins”. The latest message from Todd is dated 21st December:

Merry Christmas friends

Todd Bentley the blogger?

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I haven’t been following blogs about Todd Bentley recently, largely because they are so often full of speculative nastiness. But my eye was caught by a post at Onward, Forward, Toward… because it linked to one of my posts. And there I found some interesting information which seems to be more than speculation. It is certainly true that someone has set up a Myspace page in Todd’s name. This appears to be new, with a signup date of 16th December 2008.

I cannot confirm what is stated in the post, that the Myspace page has been set up by Todd himself, or at least by someone acting on his behalf. There is surely the possibility that this is an unofficial page set up by someone wanting to blacken Todd’s name even further – or my a misguided supporter. But it does look quite genuine.

What I discovered is that linked to this Myspace page there is a blog. Now the Myspace blogging software is so poor that the link to View Todd’s Blog leads to an almost unreadable page. But there are three posts there, all dated 16th December 2008, which can be read if accessed individually. And they do appear to be genuine writings by Todd, although not necessarily new ones.

PJ Miller, who has also posted about Todd’s new Myspace page, claims that

You won’t find anything on his page concerning his recent troubles–including his separation, impending divorce [he lists himself as ‘single’] or the fact he is continuing to live in adultery.

The fact here is not the presumption that Todd is continuing to live in adultery (for which the only evidence offered is that one of his Myspace friends is allegedly the woman with whom he has admitted an inappropriate relationship). The fact is that there is in the Myspace blog material relevant to Todd’s personal situation, although not explicitly about it. For two of Todd’s three posts are about Restoration. Here is an extract from this post, based on Isaiah 61:2-4:

Actually, did you know that it’s one thing to loose and undo the work of the devil—it’s one thing to be set free—but it’s another thing to have God restore back in your life all the damage that was done because of the oppression of the enemy?! In other words, just think for a moment about the alcoholic that gets set free, and we thank God for that. But what about all the aftermath—the damage that the alcoholism did to the children and others—or the drug addict that’s now free, but the family is still broke?

The fact is, there are testimonies of people that have come into notable freedom, yet there still remain lingering negative consequences. But biblical restoration cuts off those negative consequences! That’s because, when God restores, one: He brings an increase; two: He multiplies beyond where you were; and three: He adds the extra, making it better than it was before. Look at Job. When God restored Job, He gave him double (Job 42:10). In fact, you cannot be touched by the anointing of restoration and, for example, just get your money back at the same measure. It’s not just recovery of a former condition. No! You’re not going back to a former state. You’re going back to better! I mean, when God restores, say double, it’s everything double—life, joy, and revelation, and much more!

Is this the kind of restoration Todd is looking for? Indeed God can restore him from his current brokenness and give him an anointing that is double even that which was poured out at Lakeland. But one prerequisite for that is repentance. There is no mention of that in this article, although it is a start for Todd to recognise “the oppression of the enemy” in what has happened to him. What we do read is that when Todd was praying for his father to be saved God

revealed to me that my dad had made certain choices and he wanted the darkness. That being the case God was prevented from breaking in to help him.

Todd has also reportedly made certain choices, to live in a sinful way, which prevent God from restoring him. If he seeks restoration, first he needs to make different choices. The details of what he needs to do are known only to his close advisers. But it must include turning away from any inappropriate relationship with his former nanny and seeking reconciliation with his wife and children.

Todd Bentley speaks out

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No time at the moment to post about anything else, but this one needs a mention:

Thanks to my commenter Rhea for the link to a new article about Todd Bentley, which reports both the statement by Fresh Fire Ministries which I reported last week, and a response to it from Todd himself. Todd denies several things stated by Fresh Fire. Specifically he denies leaving his wife Shonnah to be with his former nanny. Here is part of the new article:

On Tuesday, Bentley said there had been no sexual immorality between him and the former nanny. He claimed that for two years no “spark or interest” in the former staff member existed, and that the two developed only an emotional relationship several weeks after July 1, when Bentley filed for divorce.

He admitted, however, that the budding relationship was “absolutely” bad timing.

“I would call it an inappropriate relationship, in the sense that it was too soon, too quick, and should’ve never happened the way that it happened,” Bentley said. “Emotionally, she had stepped in to comfort me as a friend would.

“But I never left my wife to be with another woman,” he said. “There was nothing premeditated or inappropriate in my heart. I had never even entertained the idea that I liked this girl. It never went there.”

Claiming to have gone through years of counseling with his wife, Bentley said he is divorcing her over “irreconcilable differences.”

He denied disconnecting from his children and told Charisma he is in constant phone contact with them and plans to see them as soon as he sorts out issues with his visa.

Meanwhile Rick Joyner

did express disappointment with FFM’s recent statement about Bentley and said he tried to persuade them not to send the letter in its current form.

“There is almost always another side to a story, as there is to many of the things they presented in this letter,” Joyner said. “Sometimes the truth is found somewhere between the two sides, but if we’re going to ever get to real healing and reconciliation I don’t think this kind of thing helps.”

Indeed. The truth must lie somewhere between what Todd says and what the Fresh Fire board has written. I hope that this frank exchange of views helps rather than hinders the process of restoration and healing for Todd, Shonnah and all involved.

As with my last post about Todd, I welcome rational discussion here. I will not tolerate comments which simply condemn Todd in ways which will not contribute towards his hoped for repentance and restoration.

Can Christians fall away? The examples of Bentley and Obama

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Every time I write about Todd Bentley, as I did on Monday, there is a huge jump in traffic to this blog. So I feel justified in writing on a subject in which there is a lot of interest. Or is this just tickling my ego? Whichever may be true, here is another post about him, and about Barack Obama. To be more precise, it is about the way we evangelical Christians react to people like these two.

What do these two have in common? It is that they were both at one time doing what good evangelical Christians should do, and now neither of them is doing. Obama responded to an altar call and had what I have called “a clear evangelical conversion experience”. Bentley started with this and went on to become an international evangelist with a major (but controversial) healing ministry. Obama, at least to some extent, rejected evangelical theology and became something of a universalist. Bentley’s rejection was in a different direction, a fall into sin from which he has not yet repented.

As an evangelical I might say that these two have fallen away from the true faith, in very different ways. But can a true Christian do this? Jeremy Pierce seems to deny it, when he writes, in a comment here concerning what I called Obama’s conversion experience, that

Obama seems to me not to have had such an experience, and if he had then I think he would have a very different attitude toward scripture (for one thing, actually believing it and following it when his inclination is to reject it as making God too cruel).

In other words, Jeremy seems to be claiming that Obama’s low view of Scripture and generally liberal theology is proof that he never had been a genuine evangelical Christian. I find this an astonishing claim, in the light of the evidence that many former evangelicals have drifted into liberal theology.

Let’s first detach this claim from the issue of whether such people will ultimately be saved, which I have discussed here before – something which cannot be known in the present, especially as there presumably remains a possibility of them repenting of liberal ideas and fully returning to the evangelical fold.

But what are the implications of Jeremy’s claim? If tomorrow the pastor under whose ministry I was converted, or who baptised me, or from whom I regularly receive communion, turns away from his faith and professes liberal ideas, where does that leave me?

I can’t help wondering if Jeremy would also hold that Bentley’s persistence, for the moment, in sin is proof that he too never had been a genuine evangelical Christian. There are certainly plenty of people around who cite this sin as evidence that his ministry was never genuine and the whole Lakeland outpouring was some kind of fraud. But does such reasoning make sense? I don’t think so.

Let’s remind ourselves that the church rejected Donatism, the sectarian teaching that ministers of the gospel who denied the faith could not be restored, that their repentance could not be accepted. My own Church of England clearly teaches, in Article XXVI, that the ministry of even the most sinful ministers is valid. This article directly contradicts any suggestion that baptism by an apostate or backsliding pastor or exercise of spiritual gifts by a sinning Todd Bentley is invalid. It even more clearly rules out any conclusion that baptism by a pastor who later becomes an apostate or backslider or exercise of spiritual gifts by Todd Bentley before he fell into sin is invalid.

So how should we relate to a Bentley or an Obama? Both apparently started well but then went astray. There are plenty of biblical examples of this, such as: King David, at the time of his adultery; King Solomon; the Galatians as addressed in Galatians 3:1-5; Hymenaeus and Alexander in 1 Timothy 1:19-20. In none of these cases is there any suggestion that these people were not at first genuinely following God’s way. Now I admit that that suggestion is made about the “antichrists” of 1 John 2:18-19; but I hope no one is going to suggest that either Obama or Bentley is the Antichrist! The biblical response to such people is not to condemn them or write them off. It is, as demonstrated by Nathan and by Paul, to call the backslider to repentance, which may involve what Paul calls being “handed over to Satan”.

At least in the case of King David this process actually led to repentance. So this can happen. My pastor told a story of how he was visited by a pastor who had been suspended from ministry for an adulterous relationship, together with his lady friend, also a Christian. They maintained to my pastor that their relationship felt so right that it must be good and holy. He asked them if they prayed together. They, with some embarrassment, said “no”, exposing to themselves that they still felt shame about their relationship. He suggested they should pray together. Shortly afterwards they realised that their relationship was wrong and repented, and the man was eventually restored to ministry.

So this restoration can happen. Let’s continue to pray that it happens with Todd Bentley, and quickly. As for Barack Obama, we can pray that his eyes will be opened to more of the truth of the gospel, and of course, in line with the verses immediately following the ones about Hymenaeus and Alexander, that he will turn out to be a good President who will make it possible for his nation and the world to “live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness”.

At last, more news about Todd Bentley

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It is more than two months since my last serious post about Todd Bentley. That post and my others about him continue to attract quite a bit of traffic to this blog, so people are still interested in him. But there has been no news to report, at least nothing I have seen, until now.

Just two days ago the Board of Directors of Fresh Fire Ministries, the group of which Todd Bentley was the main public face (not the founder, despite some false reports), issued a new statement about Todd. This is a long statement, and I will not attempt to give it an adequate summary here. So please read it for yourselves. I will simply note that they state clearly that Todd has done wrong and has not fully repented of this; they acknowledge their part in this by allowing him to become burned out; and they continue to “say that we know, without a shadow of doubt, that Lakeland was and is an authentic move of God”.

I should add one more thing here: my apologies to Shonnah Bentley for suggesting that she might have initiated a separation. I suggested this on the basis of Todd’s explanation to Rick Joyner, but it seems that that explanation was not the whole truth. Fresh Fire now writes:

It also needs to be clarified that Shonnah has in no way initiated this divorce and has no present intention to do so at any time in the future.

I welcome rational discussion here of this statement, but please remember that I did not write it and am not in a position to defend it. I will not tolerate comments which simply condemn Todd in ways which will not contribute towards his hoped for repentance and restoration.

(I note that Polycarp and Jim West, among a few others, have seen this before me, but I saw their posts only after I wrote this, and they seem to have got completely the wrong end of the stick.)

Tominthebox gives news of Todd Bentley

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Tominthebox News Network announces in its usual satirical style that Todd Bentley is returning to revival ministry, but using a “Probationary Podium” to keep his feet on the ground!

One thing in this report does seem to be true: the Lakeland Outpouring has officially ended, just over six months after it started in April. Ignited Church in Lakeland kept the nightly meetings going in their own building even after Todd left in August. But their website now says:

Welcome to the Ignited Church, the epicenter of the Lakeland Outpouring. It began April 2, 2008, and continued through October 12, 2008.

Was Jesus' work finished on the cross?

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I was made to think by part of a comment here by Bud Press. Bud listed a number of what he called “serious problems” with the teaching in Todd Bentley’s book The Reality of the Supernatural World (which I haven’t read) including this one:

– Jesus’ act of redemption was not completed on the cross, but when he ascended into heaven.

Now why does Bud consider this a problem? I know that it is a commonplace in certain strands of evangelicalism to refer to Jesus’ finished work on the cross. And his final word before he died, as recorded by John, tetelestai “It is finished!” (19:30) is often understood as a triumphant declaration that Jesus has finished his work. But is this understanding correct?

The word tetelestai in itself, introduced simply by eipen “he said”, does not necessarily imply anything triumphant. Indeed it can equally be interpreted as a dying man’s cry of despair, John’s equivalent of the words “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” recorded by Matthew (27:46) and Mark (15:34), but not by Luke (who has “Father, into your hands I commit my spirit”, 23:46) or John. The interpretation of tetelestai as a shout of triumph is based not on the word itself but on a broadly based theological understanding of Jesus’ work.

But does this broader theological understanding in fact support the concept that Jesus’ work was finished, completed, with his death on the cross? I think not. While much evangelical theology has relegated Jesus’ resurrection and ascension to being not much more than an afterthought in God’s plan, these subsequent events have always been given much greater importance in many strands of theology, especially in Eastern Orthodoxy where they tend to be given more emphasis than the cross.

There are certainly some aspects of Jesus’ work which are specifically linked to the cross alone and so were complete at Jesus’ death. This would include his sacrifice and satisfaction for sins, according to the substitution and satisfaction model of the atonement. On the rather different model presumed by Bud’s (or was it Todd’s?) use of the word “redemption”, that of slaves being bought and given their freedom, the price of this redemption was already paid on the cross. So in a rather narrow sense I might be able to agree with Bud’s implicit position that Jesus’ act of redemption was completed on the cross.

But there are other important senses in which Jesus’ work could not be completed without the subsequent resurrection and ascension. Concerning the resurrection, Paul writes to the Corinthians:

if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost.

1 Corinthians 15:17-18 (TNIV)

So, although in principle sins had been dealt with on the cross, it took the resurrection to apply the benefits of the cross to individual believers, so that they would not remain in their sins and be lost when they die, but be forgiven and attain eternal life.

As for the ascension, this may not be essential for believers’ salvation, but it does seem to be essential for the Christian life. For, in ways which I do not claim to understand, it was necessary for Jesus to ascend back to his Father before the Holy Spirit could be poured out fully on humanity, as happened on the Day of Pentecost just days after Jesus ascended. Before he died he had said:

But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.

John 16:7 (TNIV)

And Paul wrote, quoting Psalm 68:18:

But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it says:
“When he ascended on high,
he took many captives
and gave gifts to his people.”
… 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, …

Ephesians 4:7-8,11 (TNIV)

So, if Jesus had not ascended, it might have been possible for individuals to be saved, but they would not have received the power and gifting to bring others to that salvation and to come together as a community, to live as God’s people in the world.

So I must conclude that Todd Bentley (as reported by Bud Press) is right to teach that the work of Jesus, his “act of redemption” in the full sense of the word as redeeming for himself a people for his own possession (Ephesians 1:14), “was not completed on the cross, but when he ascended into heaven.”